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Agreed. Seems like Tesla may have misjudged the model 3 demand and should have increased the number of production lines more slowly. I think in Fremont factor

by sliken 8y ago

Agreed. Seems like Tesla may have misjudged the model 3 demand and should have increased the number of production lines more slowly. I think in Fremont factory has 6 lines. One for X, one for S, and 4 for the model 3. Seems like they should just move one or two of the lines from model 3 to the model Y, which shares 75% of the same parts instead of committing to building several new lines in Reno and China. While the model 3 may be luxury, it looks crazy cheap compared to the electric Audi, Volvo, BMW, and Porsche competitors... doubly so if you consider range. The model 3 even looks pretty good on a cost to own basis compared to non-luxury cars like the Toyota Camry or Honda accord. The cheapest Tesla (around $40k these days), isn't too far off the average cost of a new car ($34,000) and most will save easily $6k in maintenance and gas over the life of the car. I suspect most would consider the model 3 interior too spartan and plasticy to be consider luxury.

novaRom 8y ago
>> While the model 3 may be luxury, it looks crazy cheap compared to the electric Audi, Volvo, BMW, and Porsche competitors... I tried Tesla test drive and one thing I don't like is how cheap it feels inside. Low quality materials. So you cannot compare just their prices without mentioning materials and build quality.
- sliken 8y ago
  I rented a Tesla S (75d I believe) for 3 days. Felt pretty awesome, and stomping on the accelerator put a smile on my face every time. The nav system was a pleasure, actually better than Google Nav on a top of the line phone. The voice recognition for nav and music playing worked really well. I've used similar nav systems from BMW, Subaru, and Toyota and they seemed like lame software running on a 5-10 year old phone. Poor touch screens, smaller screens, poor voice recognition, and poor nav. I'd rather they just have an aux port for music and let me hang my own tablet on the dash somewhere. Overall fit/finish for the model S was not as nice as an Audi I've been in, but was plenty good for me. The model 3 is of course substantially less luxurious. Single smaller display instead of two displays. Many less buttons/switches. I've only done a test drive in the 3. But I do have several friends that have switches from S to 3, or 3 to S, and they speak very highly of the 3. No doubt the 3 is built to a much lower price point, and you can tell. I think part of the Tesla plan is to have you touch nothing but the steering wheel or the display. I suspect the voice commands will get better over time, they already handle nav and music well. But when it comes down to it, I'd pick performance, handling, and range over more expensive interior. Not like Audi, Volvo, or BMW is selling anything close to the model 3 price and range. I drove a Chevy Volt (comparable on price, but not so much on range or performance) and it was nowhere close to the model 3. Who is willing to buy a slower car and pay 50% more for 2/3rds the range just to get a nicer interior? Not me.
  - neuronic 8y ago
    > I've used similar nav systems from BMW, Subaru, and Toyota and they seemed like lame software running on a 5-10 year old phone. Poor touch screens, smaller screens, poor voice recognition, and poor nav. I'd rather they just have an aux port for music and let me hang my own tablet on the dash somewhere. Thought the same, but the newest Volkswagen generation has improved a lot. Their touch screens and software feel much much more usable than even 2 years ago.
    - sliken 8y ago
      Comparable to google Nav on a new iphone or pixel 3? If so, I'll definitely have to keep an eye on the future VW electric cars.
      - neuronic 8y ago
        No, definitely not but they have still made leaps from previous iterations. And I think that's a very positive development. My subjective impression is it basically went from major annoyance to "quite usable". I recently used it on a trip from Northern Germany to Amsterdam and it worked really well.
dannyw 8y ago
People expected $35k before incentives. That means an out of pocket cost of approx $28k. People did not expect $36k. $28k vs $36k is HUGE.
- sliken 8y ago
  Agreed, it is huge. Potential market at $36k vs $28k is quite a bit smaller. At least Tesla bundled in autopilot at zero extra cost. It's not as good as originally promised, but still a pretty good deal in my opinion. Just depends how much people are willing to spend for good acceleration, avoiding trips to gas stations, and avoiding spending $1000-$1200 of gas per year. Of course electricity is not free either. My last fill up in California was $3.99 a gallon and I spent $51. I do that about 4-5 times a month.
  - taneq 8y ago
    > At least Tesla bundled in autopilot at zero extra cost. For about 15 minutes, before they rolled that back. Honestly that's the biggest red flag, to me - the chaotic mix of announcements, retractions, chops and changes to their pricing and marketing strategy. As an outsider it feels like the company has cool tech but lacks adult supervision.
    - sliken 8y ago
      Er, what? Go to https://www.tesla.com/model3 https://www.tesla.com/model3, click on buy, next, next. You should see: "Autopilot Included". The car costs $39,500.
      - sbov 8y ago
        You have to call in to get the actual base model - they removed the option to order it from the website.
        sliken 8y ago
        Yes, I ignored that one. The $39,500 model with autopilot is right on the website. It's not the promised $35k model, but it does include autopilot.

by sliken 8y ago

novaRom 8y ago

>> While the model 3 may be luxury, it looks crazy cheap compared to the electric Audi, Volvo, BMW, and Porsche competitors... I tried Tesla test drive and one thing I don't like is how cheap it feels inside. Low quality materials. So you cannot compare just their prices without mentioning materials and build quality.

sliken 8y ago
I rented a Tesla S (75d I believe) for 3 days. Felt pretty awesome, and stomping on the accelerator put a smile on my face every time. The nav system was a pleasure, actually better than Google Nav on a top of the line phone. The voice recognition for nav and music playing worked really well. I've used similar nav systems from BMW, Subaru, and Toyota and they seemed like lame software running on a 5-10 year old phone. Poor touch screens, smaller screens, poor voice recognition, and poor nav. I'd rather they just have an aux port for music and let me hang my own tablet on the dash somewhere. Overall fit/finish for the model S was not as nice as an Audi I've been in, but was plenty good for me. The model 3 is of course substantially less luxurious. Single smaller display instead of two displays. Many less buttons/switches. I've only done a test drive in the 3. But I do have several friends that have switches from S to 3, or 3 to S, and they speak very highly of the 3. No doubt the 3 is built to a much lower price point, and you can tell. I think part of the Tesla plan is to have you touch nothing but the steering wheel or the display. I suspect the voice commands will get better over time, they already handle nav and music well. But when it comes down to it, I'd pick performance, handling, and range over more expensive interior. Not like Audi, Volvo, or BMW is selling anything close to the model 3 price and range. I drove a Chevy Volt (comparable on price, but not so much on range or performance) and it was nowhere close to the model 3. Who is willing to buy a slower car and pay 50% more for 2/3rds the range just to get a nicer interior? Not me.
- neuronic 8y ago
  > I've used similar nav systems from BMW, Subaru, and Toyota and they seemed like lame software running on a 5-10 year old phone. Poor touch screens, smaller screens, poor voice recognition, and poor nav. I'd rather they just have an aux port for music and let me hang my own tablet on the dash somewhere. Thought the same, but the newest Volkswagen generation has improved a lot. Their touch screens and software feel much much more usable than even 2 years ago.
  - sliken 8y ago
    Comparable to google Nav on a new iphone or pixel 3? If so, I'll definitely have to keep an eye on the future VW electric cars.
    - neuronic 8y ago
      No, definitely not but they have still made leaps from previous iterations. And I think that's a very positive development. My subjective impression is it basically went from major annoyance to "quite usable". I recently used it on a trip from Northern Germany to Amsterdam and it worked really well.

dannyw 8y ago

People expected $35k before incentives. That means an out of pocket cost of approx $28k. People did not expect $36k. $28k vs $36k is HUGE.

sliken 8y ago
Agreed, it is huge. Potential market at $36k vs $28k is quite a bit smaller. At least Tesla bundled in autopilot at zero extra cost. It's not as good as originally promised, but still a pretty good deal in my opinion. Just depends how much people are willing to spend for good acceleration, avoiding trips to gas stations, and avoiding spending $1000-$1200 of gas per year. Of course electricity is not free either. My last fill up in California was $3.99 a gallon and I spent $51. I do that about 4-5 times a month.
- taneq 8y ago
  > At least Tesla bundled in autopilot at zero extra cost. For about 15 minutes, before they rolled that back. Honestly that's the biggest red flag, to me - the chaotic mix of announcements, retractions, chops and changes to their pricing and marketing strategy. As an outsider it feels like the company has cool tech but lacks adult supervision.
  - sliken 8y ago
    Er, what? Go to https://www.tesla.com/model3 https://www.tesla.com/model3, click on buy, next, next. You should see: "Autopilot Included". The car costs $39,500.
    - sbov 8y ago
      You have to call in to get the actual base model - they removed the option to order it from the website.
      - sliken 8y ago
        Yes, I ignored that one. The $39,500 model with autopilot is right on the website. It's not the promised $35k model, but it does include autopilot.