5 ms·

This is criminal. We should have extremely harsh penalties for this sort of nonsense.

munk-a 7y ago
So I moved up to Canada a few years back... and was amazed and delighted to see that unpaid internships are just blanket illegal up here. The US has some pretty terrible labour laws.
- xvector 7y ago
  Unpaid internships are usually illegal in the US too [1, 2]. Exploitative managers ignore this rule and desperate interns don't care after a certain point. [1]: https://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs71.htm https://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs71.htm [2]: https://www.fastweb.com/career-planning/articles/let-s-get-legal-guidelines-for-paid-or-unpaid-internships https://www.fastweb.com/career-planning/articles/let-s-get-l...
  - munk-a 7y ago
    That clearly states that unpaid internships are legal, it states that un-compensated internships are illegal but you're still free to deduct the value of "experience" from the wages you're paying someone. That's pure BS and - unless the training being received is purely academic in nature - people should get paid. And within this I include assisting a professor with research so they can publish a fancy paper and get lots of clout. If someone is reaping a benefit (i.e. if the activity exists for any reason other than purely to teach you things) then the employee should be paid. If your company brings in students and steps them through problems you've already solved showing the process of identifying and resolving the issue after the fact - that's educational and good on your company for donating your time to help train a new generation - if they are contributing to the solution in any way then they're an employee.
    - xvector 7y ago
      > That clearly states that unpaid internships are legal, Sorry, this is why I said "usually". One of the many circumstances under which internships must be paid is if you provide benefit to the company. Since most internships do this, even unpaid ones, most unpaid internships are illegal (but not all fo them). It's all very vague and I'm sure you could lawyer up and find loopholes should students complain. But I feel like if you're giving unpaid internships in the first place, money for a court case is not on the table.
  - cwkoss 7y ago
    I have a friend who took an unpaid internship in a state where it is not legal. Then, once the internship was finished, he sent them an invoice for hours worked at minimum wage. They were not happy, but they paid.
    - brewdad 7y ago
      I'm sure your friend lists them as a reference too. :)
      - cwkoss 7y ago
        Yeah, he certainly did not. I wonder any states have DOL regulations that prevent companies from disparaging workers making valid wage disputes. Perhaps there could be additional statutory penalties if you could bait them into giving a bad reference on the basis of the wage issue.
- duxup 7y ago
  Are such internships all that common in the US? I used to work with the interns at a previous job... they did nothing of significance and were paid. The time and effort everyone put into it was a net loss by far for the company.
- klyrs 7y ago
  Unpaid interships are fairly common up here. I know folks trying to get into film production and the common story is "if I tattle, I'll be blackballed" so they do it anyway

So I moved up to Canada a few years back... and was amazed and delighted to see that unpaid internships are just blanket illegal up here. The US has some pretty terrible labour laws.

xvector 7y ago
Unpaid internships are usually illegal in the US too [1, 2]. Exploitative managers ignore this rule and desperate interns don't care after a certain point. [1]: https://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs71.htm https://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs71.htm [2]: https://www.fastweb.com/career-planning/articles/let-s-get-legal-guidelines-for-paid-or-unpaid-internships https://www.fastweb.com/career-planning/articles/let-s-get-l...
- munk-a 7y ago
  That clearly states that unpaid internships are legal, it states that un-compensated internships are illegal but you're still free to deduct the value of "experience" from the wages you're paying someone. That's pure BS and - unless the training being received is purely academic in nature - people should get paid. And within this I include assisting a professor with research so they can publish a fancy paper and get lots of clout. If someone is reaping a benefit (i.e. if the activity exists for any reason other than purely to teach you things) then the employee should be paid. If your company brings in students and steps them through problems you've already solved showing the process of identifying and resolving the issue after the fact - that's educational and good on your company for donating your time to help train a new generation - if they are contributing to the solution in any way then they're an employee.
  - xvector 7y ago
    > That clearly states that unpaid internships are legal, Sorry, this is why I said "usually". One of the many circumstances under which internships must be paid is if you provide benefit to the company. Since most internships do this, even unpaid ones, most unpaid internships are illegal (but not all fo them). It's all very vague and I'm sure you could lawyer up and find loopholes should students complain. But I feel like if you're giving unpaid internships in the first place, money for a court case is not on the table.
- cwkoss 7y ago
  I have a friend who took an unpaid internship in a state where it is not legal. Then, once the internship was finished, he sent them an invoice for hours worked at minimum wage. They were not happy, but they paid.
  - brewdad 7y ago
    I'm sure your friend lists them as a reference too. :)
    - cwkoss 7y ago
      Yeah, he certainly did not. I wonder any states have DOL regulations that prevent companies from disparaging workers making valid wage disputes. Perhaps there could be additional statutory penalties if you could bait them into giving a bad reference on the basis of the wage issue.
duxup 7y ago
Are such internships all that common in the US? I used to work with the interns at a previous job... they did nothing of significance and were paid. The time and effort everyone put into it was a net loss by far for the company.
klyrs 7y ago
Unpaid interships are fairly common up here. I know folks trying to get into film production and the common story is "if I tattle, I'll be blackballed" so they do it anyway