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The real leaked material is that the US embassy have the opinion/analysis that X factories & mines are vital to the U.S. I think that a small team of economist

The real leaked material is that the US embassy have the opinion/analysis that X factories & mines are vital to the U.S. I think that a small team of economists could have figured out what plants are vital to national security. It's not like this data is secret- it's just the embassy's thoughts that are secret. (So... thank god Jihadists don't know economics! Let's hope Julian doesn't leak any textbooks.)

natrius 16y ago
I agree that the data isn't particularly secret, but I also agree that there doesn't seem to be any possible public good served by leaking this information.
- gasull 16y ago
  We learn what our Government is spending our money on.
  - natrius 16y ago
    Are you talking about the money spent compiling the lists or the money spent on the things in the list? The former is trivial, and the latter isn't actually provided by the list. It isn't limited to U.S. assets. The only information this list provides is what the list says it provides: facilities that are vital to U.S. security. I can't think of a beneficial use of this data, but I can think of plenty of harmful uses. The list isn't hard to figure out, so I don't think its release is a huge loss, but there is no gain, so I can only wish that it were never leaked.
- civilian 16y ago
  This leak Does serve the public good, if the public surrounding these vital targets learn that these locations are vital. Instead of being ignorant bystanders who think it's "just a factory"; they'll know that it is a Vital factory, and that suspicious activity around it should be reported. Whenever I'm in a train station I hear about how important I am, as a civilian, to security and that I should report suspicious bags. Couldn't the government take that attitude to the next level?
  - natrius 16y ago
    You're assuming that the benefit from the public knowing about the facilities is greater than the detriment. That isn't necessarily the case, and it's unlikely to be the case in my opinion. The train station analogy is flawed. Train stations are targets because they're train stations. Security through obscurity isn't possible. If this leak is somehow beneficial, how would you feel about a leak of the identities of all covert agents? The public would know who they're paying to do certain kinds of work, but I'm sure we can agree that it would have a negative effect overall. I think this situation is similar, although the information is easier to deduce.
  - krschultz 16y ago
    I think you have made the only solid argument backing the leak of this specific document that I've seen, so thank you for that. I do agree that can be helpful. I just wonder how many things that weren't targets yesterday are now targets today. I live near a nuclear powerplant, but I wouldn't necessarily consider it a target because it is just one of hundreds, why target this one? I'm sure there is security on it, but I don't worry about it much. But what if it was on the list and it said that it was critical for the distribution of power in the whole northeast region because there is a flaw in the power distribution system. Now this relatively obscure nuclear plant is high on the list of targets and its security has to be increased a lot. The same goes for chemical plants, oil refineries, etc. Can you tell me which one of the hundreds of DuPont factories manufactures chemicals for weapon systems and which ones manufactur nylon for disposable table clothes? Probably not before this leak, but I bet you can guess it now. I don't see why that is helpful to anybody. I would have been suspicious of people snooping around any chemical factory, but now all of a sudden the terrorists can hit the most valuable one. To me, that is pretty lame.
tibbon 16y ago
I know HN isn't the place for jokes but- this just popped into my head due to your textbooks comment What if Wikileaks leaked the text of all the bills from congress to the press from the past year? If senators and the press actually read them fully, it would be the first time any of them had actually read the full contents!
- civilian 16y ago
  :) "Read the Bills Act" http://www.downsizedc.org/read-the-laws http://www.downsizedc.org/read-the-laws #offtopic
waterlesscloud 16y ago
It's a fascinating list for that reason. What's listed, and why, and what isn't, and why. Lots to think through (though certainly not to share on a public forum). It's an extremely interesting way to look at the world.
tzs 16y ago
Some are obvious--oil production facilities are important, so your hypothetical team of economists would have no trouble there. But how about the insulin manufacturer in Denmark or the rabies vaccine manufacturer in France? I wouldn't be surprised if those are raising eyebrows, with people thinking "it would never even have occurred to us that there may be a problem with the insulin supply!".

natrius 16y ago

I agree that the data isn't particularly secret, but I also agree that there doesn't seem to be any possible public good served by leaking this information.

gasull 16y ago
We learn what our Government is spending our money on.
- natrius 16y ago
  Are you talking about the money spent compiling the lists or the money spent on the things in the list? The former is trivial, and the latter isn't actually provided by the list. It isn't limited to U.S. assets. The only information this list provides is what the list says it provides: facilities that are vital to U.S. security. I can't think of a beneficial use of this data, but I can think of plenty of harmful uses. The list isn't hard to figure out, so I don't think its release is a huge loss, but there is no gain, so I can only wish that it were never leaked.
civilian 16y ago
This leak Does serve the public good, if the public surrounding these vital targets learn that these locations are vital. Instead of being ignorant bystanders who think it's "just a factory"; they'll know that it is a Vital factory, and that suspicious activity around it should be reported. Whenever I'm in a train station I hear about how important I am, as a civilian, to security and that I should report suspicious bags. Couldn't the government take that attitude to the next level?
- natrius 16y ago
  You're assuming that the benefit from the public knowing about the facilities is greater than the detriment. That isn't necessarily the case, and it's unlikely to be the case in my opinion. The train station analogy is flawed. Train stations are targets because they're train stations. Security through obscurity isn't possible. If this leak is somehow beneficial, how would you feel about a leak of the identities of all covert agents? The public would know who they're paying to do certain kinds of work, but I'm sure we can agree that it would have a negative effect overall. I think this situation is similar, although the information is easier to deduce.
- krschultz 16y ago
  I think you have made the only solid argument backing the leak of this specific document that I've seen, so thank you for that. I do agree that can be helpful. I just wonder how many things that weren't targets yesterday are now targets today. I live near a nuclear powerplant, but I wouldn't necessarily consider it a target because it is just one of hundreds, why target this one? I'm sure there is security on it, but I don't worry about it much. But what if it was on the list and it said that it was critical for the distribution of power in the whole northeast region because there is a flaw in the power distribution system. Now this relatively obscure nuclear plant is high on the list of targets and its security has to be increased a lot. The same goes for chemical plants, oil refineries, etc. Can you tell me which one of the hundreds of DuPont factories manufactures chemicals for weapon systems and which ones manufactur nylon for disposable table clothes? Probably not before this leak, but I bet you can guess it now. I don't see why that is helpful to anybody. I would have been suspicious of people snooping around any chemical factory, but now all of a sudden the terrorists can hit the most valuable one. To me, that is pretty lame.

tibbon 16y ago

I know HN isn't the place for jokes but- this just popped into my head due to your textbooks comment What if Wikileaks leaked the text of all the bills from congress to the press from the past year? If senators and the press actually read them fully, it would be the first time any of them had actually read the full contents!

civilian 16y ago
:) "Read the Bills Act" http://www.downsizedc.org/read-the-laws http://www.downsizedc.org/read-the-laws #offtopic

waterlesscloud 16y ago

It's a fascinating list for that reason. What's listed, and why, and what isn't, and why. Lots to think through (though certainly not to share on a public forum). It's an extremely interesting way to look at the world.

tzs 16y ago

Some are obvious--oil production facilities are important, so your hypothetical team of economists would have no trouble there. But how about the insulin manufacturer in Denmark or the rabies vaccine manufacturer in France? I wouldn't be surprised if those are raising eyebrows, with people thinking "it would never even have occurred to us that there may be a problem with the insulin supply!".