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I have the utmost hatred for these organizations. And the people that run them. They need to be fined out of existence. Their executives need to be jailed. I d

I have the utmost hatred for these organizations. And the people that run them. They need to be fined out of existence. Their executives need to be jailed. I don't think our society will face meaningful change unless there are physical consequences (read: jail) to doing terrible-human-being stuff like this. The executives will just go off with their cushy $20M severance paychecks and exploit some other group of people in a slightly different way.

titanix2 8y ago
That’s why I’m very happy with the prosecution of Carlos Ghosn in Japan. Yes, this maybe part of an international power game between the two car vendors executives but if there is charges against him he’s not clean either. In France he would had a fake trial like all influencing people have and be sparred from jail or any real consequences. In Japan he risks jail like everyone regardless of his status.
munk-a 8y ago
Just in general America has a severe issue with CYOAism, liability sale, liability insurance and responsibility - we need a serious reform to get rid of excuses be it "just following my boss's orders" to "I was just responding to market pressures - I'm an innocent capitalist fulfilling what the market demands".
- seem_2211 8y ago
  Agreed. That's one thing I really hate as an excuse. You can't make that excuse and respect yourself.
- learc83 8y ago
  >I'm an innocent capitalist fulfilling what the market demands I agree. We've been using that excuse for too long. In the 50's William Levitt, the country's largest home builder and the originator of the modern suburb, said exactly that when asked why he built white only communities. "If we sell one house to a Negro family, 90 to 95 percent of our white customers will not buy into the community." "As a Jew, I have no room in my heart for racial prejudice. But the plain fact is that most whites prefer not to live in mixed communities. This attitude may be wrong morally, and someday it may change. I hope it will." In other words: I know it's wrong, but I'm just doing what my customers want.
  - kazinator 8y ago
    Wow. He did more than just use that excuse, he played the "I can't be racist because I'm a Jew" card. His reference to "white customers" doesn't even exclude Jews, to begin with. Like, in 1950's America, did Jews eagerly move into communities with large numbers of blacks, in stark contrast to "whites"?
    - jrochkind1 8y ago
      In 1950's America, actually, many white communities wouldn't allow Jews to buy or rent. But I agree with you that "I can't be racist because I'm a Jew" is ridiculous, and that real estate profiteering off of racism is abhorent regardless of who is doing it.
  - infinite8s 8y ago
    And that's why we have regulations.
    - apostacy 8y ago
      The regulations are worse than the problem though. Thankfully the HUD under this administration has been trying to slow it down. In my friend's home town, the federal government has deemed it to be "too white", and is trying to build a 500 unit housing complex, and bus in people from 80 miles away to live there. And to anyone who loves talking about how enlightened they are, ask yourself if YOU would choose to live next to government housing for 500+ low income people. Of course you wouldn't.
      - learc83 8y ago
        So some people living next to 500 low income people is better than not allowing black people to live anywhere but slums? Because that's the problem in the scenario I mentioned. Also low income people need to live somewhere, and how exactly are they "busing" in people to live there? I'm pretty sure your story is missing some details. Can you link us to a local article on it so we can find out more for ourselves?
- btrettel 8y ago
  I recently wrote the following in response to a different comment here on HN: > "I was just following incentives" is becoming the new Nuremberg defense. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19709730 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19709730 I'm clearly not the only one who has had this thought... Blog post on this sort of issue in academia: http://www.talyarkoni.org/blog/2018/10/02/no-its-not-the-incentives-its-you/ http://www.talyarkoni.org/blog/2018/10/02/no-its-not-the-inc...
  - klyrs 8y ago
    "The invisible hand of the market made me do it" Also seen on HN: "if I don't take this opportunity, the next guy will anyway"
    - zmix 8y ago
      > "The invisible hand of the market made me do it" <cynic>It may also have been God...</cynic>
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
4ntonius8lock 8y ago
100% agreed. I will add that part of this is what you say, but I think part also has to do with our lack of empathy for 'losers' and 'criminals'. Most of the people being subjected to this had jail as the other option.
rectang 8y ago
The enablers of these executives live among us here on HN, excusing unlimited exploitation in the name of "personal responsibility".
- dang 8y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19740648 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19740648

titanix2 8y ago

That’s why I’m very happy with the prosecution of Carlos Ghosn in Japan. Yes, this maybe part of an international power game between the two car vendors executives but if there is charges against him he’s not clean either. In France he would had a fake trial like all influencing people have and be sparred from jail or any real consequences. In Japan he risks jail like everyone regardless of his status.

munk-a 8y ago

Just in general America has a severe issue with CYOAism, liability sale, liability insurance and responsibility - we need a serious reform to get rid of excuses be it "just following my boss's orders" to "I was just responding to market pressures - I'm an innocent capitalist fulfilling what the market demands".

seem_2211 8y ago
Agreed. That's one thing I really hate as an excuse. You can't make that excuse and respect yourself.
learc83 8y ago
>I'm an innocent capitalist fulfilling what the market demands I agree. We've been using that excuse for too long. In the 50's William Levitt, the country's largest home builder and the originator of the modern suburb, said exactly that when asked why he built white only communities. "If we sell one house to a Negro family, 90 to 95 percent of our white customers will not buy into the community." "As a Jew, I have no room in my heart for racial prejudice. But the plain fact is that most whites prefer not to live in mixed communities. This attitude may be wrong morally, and someday it may change. I hope it will." In other words: I know it's wrong, but I'm just doing what my customers want.
- kazinator 8y ago
  Wow. He did more than just use that excuse, he played the "I can't be racist because I'm a Jew" card. His reference to "white customers" doesn't even exclude Jews, to begin with. Like, in 1950's America, did Jews eagerly move into communities with large numbers of blacks, in stark contrast to "whites"?
  - jrochkind1 8y ago
    In 1950's America, actually, many white communities wouldn't allow Jews to buy or rent. But I agree with you that "I can't be racist because I'm a Jew" is ridiculous, and that real estate profiteering off of racism is abhorent regardless of who is doing it.
- infinite8s 8y ago
  And that's why we have regulations.
  - apostacy 8y ago
    The regulations are worse than the problem though. Thankfully the HUD under this administration has been trying to slow it down. In my friend's home town, the federal government has deemed it to be "too white", and is trying to build a 500 unit housing complex, and bus in people from 80 miles away to live there. And to anyone who loves talking about how enlightened they are, ask yourself if YOU would choose to live next to government housing for 500+ low income people. Of course you wouldn't.
    - learc83 8y ago
      So some people living next to 500 low income people is better than not allowing black people to live anywhere but slums? Because that's the problem in the scenario I mentioned. Also low income people need to live somewhere, and how exactly are they "busing" in people to live there? I'm pretty sure your story is missing some details. Can you link us to a local article on it so we can find out more for ourselves?
btrettel 8y ago
I recently wrote the following in response to a different comment here on HN: > "I was just following incentives" is becoming the new Nuremberg defense. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19709730 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19709730 I'm clearly not the only one who has had this thought... Blog post on this sort of issue in academia: http://www.talyarkoni.org/blog/2018/10/02/no-its-not-the-incentives-its-you/ http://www.talyarkoni.org/blog/2018/10/02/no-its-not-the-inc...
- klyrs 8y ago
  "The invisible hand of the market made me do it" Also seen on HN: "if I don't take this opportunity, the next guy will anyway"
  - zmix 8y ago
    > "The invisible hand of the market made me do it" <cynic>It may also have been God...</cynic>
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

4ntonius8lock 8y ago

100% agreed. I will add that part of this is what you say, but I think part also has to do with our lack of empathy for 'losers' and 'criminals'. Most of the people being subjected to this had jail as the other option.

rectang 8y ago

The enablers of these executives live among us here on HN, excusing unlimited exploitation in the name of "personal responsibility".

dang 8y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19740648 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19740648