4 ms·

Is there an example that stands out?

4ntonius8lock 7y ago
Example 1: Military captain gives contracts to companies which he is 'affiliated' with in addition to getting direct kick back commissions from them. After investigation, he was 'forced into retirement'. So basically he accepted bribery (which I'm sure he didn't classify correctly on his bank statements, meaning money laundering and wire fraud) and didn't have to pay anything back, didn't get charged with anything and kept his career. His 'punishment' is having to continue to get paid... while keeping the money. Example 2: Naval director extorts money from subordinates: he faced a single 'letter of counseling' telling him his failures. He didn't pay back the money he received and faced no financial, career or other punishments. And that is AFTER being caught. And to be clear, these two examples are taken from a document produced by the US Government to warn employees of the dangers of misbehaving. Imagine the cases they felt were too lenient to include in the book!
- pnutjam 7y ago
  https://www.jag.navy.mil/distrib/instructions/EncylopediaofEthicalFailures(2014).pdf https://www.jag.navy.mil/distrib/instructions/EncylopediaofE... - what page? (EDIT) page 5: 5brother-in-law as contractors. Colonel 2 even attempted to get his own son hired as a contractor, but Colonel 2’s supervisor correctly thought it would be inappropriate. Each colonel was issued a letter of caution to avoid an appearance of a conflictand they were required to take an annual ethics training course. Chief AuthorityA military service Chief Master Sergeant abused her authority and improperly used a government vehicle when she employed a government vehicle and three non-commissioned officers under her supervision to move personal property in a government rental vehicle. The soldiers helped her for 3 hours. The Chief Master Sergeant was given a verbal warning and advised of the improper use of government vehicles and the abuse of authority. Abuse of Position and BriberyA military service Captain used his official position as a reservist to obtain contracts for private sector companies with which he had an affiliation. In addition, the Captain accepted a “finder’s fee” (i.e., kickbacks) from one company for his efforts in helping thecompany obtain government contract work. For his significant ethical failure, the Captain was “allowed” to retire at the grade of Commander, though he had been selected to be an Admiral. In addition, the Captain was debarred for one year, while two of the affiliated companies entered into administrative agreements (for 3 years) with the military service. -- what's the pay difference between commander and admiral? This looks like a standard white collar slap on the wrist.
  - 4ntonius8lock 7y ago
    Your statement: 'standard white collar slap on the wrist' is so self evidently disconnected from an objective reality... that all I can state is I wish you well in your subjective reality. I truly wonder though what leads a person to believe that corporate employees getting caught in bribery and kick backs leads to them 'getting demoted'. It's a 'standard' story of a 'slap on the wrist'. Yeah, because courts order that all the time: this executive bribed the government? He will now be a junior executive. So has the court commanded... I don't even know how this could be a thing someone could imagine... to me it's hilarious. It's so evidently false. I'm also totally shocked at how some people will deny something, and when proven wrong, they pick at the proof by trying to diminish it without challenging it or acknowledging that they had the oposite view just a minute ago. It's like there is a percentage of the population incapable of admitting being in the wrong.
    - empath75 7y ago
      Most white collar crime isn’t even prosecuted let alone punished.
      - 4ntonius8lock 7y ago
        Again, pure sophism. You could say the same about government employee misconduct. It has no factual basis, it's just a generic statement designed to not address the topic while seeming to contradict the point. Talk equal to equal. The example provided is what happens to government officials when they are caught AND punished. I the frequency of getting caught was never mentioned, it's something you brought up. The topic here is leniency. Do you really think a small demotion within a company is the reaction of the legal team of say, facebook, to such things? I mean imagine the Director of Marketing getting kick backs from companies he recommends to the board. And when caught, he is not fired, doesn't have to pay back anything and only suffers a 30% paycut. It is my understanding that when a large corporation has an officer unjust enriching himself by securing kick backs from companies, they engage in a civil lawsuit. This would result in an amount considerably larger than the amount received from enrichment being placed in judgement against a defendant. It would also create a discovery process which would basically mean a made case for a DA, who may and likely will prosecute. A first time offender will likely have minimal if any jail, but they would have a criminal record. The employee in question would undoubtedly lose his job and all benefits. How could you compare these two? The fact that white collar crime is unjustly lenient vs street crime has no bearing on the unjust lenience of private vs public sector employee misconduct. This reddit style 'whatabboutism' is really tiring.

Example 1: Military captain gives contracts to companies which he is 'affiliated' with in addition to getting direct kick back commissions from them. After investigation, he was 'forced into retirement'. So basically he accepted bribery (which I'm sure he didn't classify correctly on his bank statements, meaning money laundering and wire fraud) and didn't have to pay anything back, didn't get charged with anything and kept his career. His 'punishment' is having to continue to get paid... while keeping the money. Example 2: Naval director extorts money from subordinates: he faced a single 'letter of counseling' telling him his failures. He didn't pay back the money he received and faced no financial, career or other punishments. And that is AFTER being caught. And to be clear, these two examples are taken from a document produced by the US Government to warn employees of the dangers of misbehaving. Imagine the cases they felt were too lenient to include in the book!

pnutjam 7y ago
https://www.jag.navy.mil/distrib/instructions/EncylopediaofEthicalFailures(2014).pdf https://www.jag.navy.mil/distrib/instructions/EncylopediaofE... - what page? (EDIT) page 5: 5brother-in-law as contractors. Colonel 2 even attempted to get his own son hired as a contractor, but Colonel 2’s supervisor correctly thought it would be inappropriate. Each colonel was issued a letter of caution to avoid an appearance of a conflictand they were required to take an annual ethics training course. Chief AuthorityA military service Chief Master Sergeant abused her authority and improperly used a government vehicle when she employed a government vehicle and three non-commissioned officers under her supervision to move personal property in a government rental vehicle. The soldiers helped her for 3 hours. The Chief Master Sergeant was given a verbal warning and advised of the improper use of government vehicles and the abuse of authority. Abuse of Position and BriberyA military service Captain used his official position as a reservist to obtain contracts for private sector companies with which he had an affiliation. In addition, the Captain accepted a “finder’s fee” (i.e., kickbacks) from one company for his efforts in helping thecompany obtain government contract work. For his significant ethical failure, the Captain was “allowed” to retire at the grade of Commander, though he had been selected to be an Admiral. In addition, the Captain was debarred for one year, while two of the affiliated companies entered into administrative agreements (for 3 years) with the military service. -- what's the pay difference between commander and admiral? This looks like a standard white collar slap on the wrist.
- 4ntonius8lock 7y ago
  Your statement: 'standard white collar slap on the wrist' is so self evidently disconnected from an objective reality... that all I can state is I wish you well in your subjective reality. I truly wonder though what leads a person to believe that corporate employees getting caught in bribery and kick backs leads to them 'getting demoted'. It's a 'standard' story of a 'slap on the wrist'. Yeah, because courts order that all the time: this executive bribed the government? He will now be a junior executive. So has the court commanded... I don't even know how this could be a thing someone could imagine... to me it's hilarious. It's so evidently false. I'm also totally shocked at how some people will deny something, and when proven wrong, they pick at the proof by trying to diminish it without challenging it or acknowledging that they had the oposite view just a minute ago. It's like there is a percentage of the population incapable of admitting being in the wrong.
  - empath75 7y ago
    Most white collar crime isn’t even prosecuted let alone punished.
    - 4ntonius8lock 7y ago
      Again, pure sophism. You could say the same about government employee misconduct. It has no factual basis, it's just a generic statement designed to not address the topic while seeming to contradict the point. Talk equal to equal. The example provided is what happens to government officials when they are caught AND punished. I the frequency of getting caught was never mentioned, it's something you brought up. The topic here is leniency. Do you really think a small demotion within a company is the reaction of the legal team of say, facebook, to such things? I mean imagine the Director of Marketing getting kick backs from companies he recommends to the board. And when caught, he is not fired, doesn't have to pay back anything and only suffers a 30% paycut. It is my understanding that when a large corporation has an officer unjust enriching himself by securing kick backs from companies, they engage in a civil lawsuit. This would result in an amount considerably larger than the amount received from enrichment being placed in judgement against a defendant. It would also create a discovery process which would basically mean a made case for a DA, who may and likely will prosecute. A first time offender will likely have minimal if any jail, but they would have a criminal record. The employee in question would undoubtedly lose his job and all benefits. How could you compare these two? The fact that white collar crime is unjustly lenient vs street crime has no bearing on the unjust lenience of private vs public sector employee misconduct. This reddit style 'whatabboutism' is really tiring.