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There are tons of easy alternatives for vegetable protein, including good old lentils, beans, chickpeas, etc. You don't have to go out of your way to buy tempeh

There are tons of easy alternatives for vegetable protein, including good old lentils, beans, chickpeas, etc. You don't have to go out of your way to buy tempeh or gourmet vegetarian food.

jniedrauer 7y ago
Hitting high protein or low carb macros is difficult without some kind of protein supplement. I'm currently targeting 50% fat, 25% protein, 25% carbs for endurance reasons. Of course this isn't applicable to everyone. But it is applicable to anyone who needs to keep carbs low for health reasons, or anyone with some kind of athletic hobby. Also bear in mind that not all protein is created equal. If wheat gluten wasn't low in lysine, I'd eat a lot more of it.
- oftenwrong 7y ago
  So, basically: 1. "healthy" doesn't mean living a long life free of ailments. It means achieving your standard of athletic performance as a hobby. 2. "challenging" doesn't mean difficult. It means doing some research, buying more tempeh at once and maybe freezing it, or just buying a protein supplement.
  - jniedrauer 7y ago
    > "challenging" doesn't mean difficult. It means doing some research, buying That's already too much. I can do that, and you can do that. Our jobs are to research things and then implement them. Most people will not or can not do this. Expecting them to is a waste of time. The way to solve this would be to de-incentivize meat production on the supply side, and encourage food distributors to fortify food with micronutrients that are commonly missing in vegetarian diets (vitamin B12, calcium, etc). Anything short of this is not going to do much except turn people off from being vegetarian.
    - oftenwrong 7y ago
      I just want to make sure I am clear on the argument you are making. Are you saying the average person can't easily be healthy without meat? That it would require them to do research? That it is easier for them to be healthy on meat-including diet without doing any research? I agree that none of this matters as long as people can eat meat. They will if they can.
      - jniedrauer 7y ago
        > I just want to make sure I am clear on the argument you are making Yes, that's a decent summery. Populations would be less healthy if meat just suddenly disappeared with no other changes. Although, in the United States at least, we massively over-consume meat to the detriment of our health. But we rely on it as a source of many micronutrients that we otherwise wouldn't get by default. Additionally, these changes will never happen without regulatory changes on the supply side to artificially drive up the cost of meat production.
    - spraak 7y ago
      I'm curious what else you think is missing in a vegan/vegetarian diet, because calcium is not one of them, and even "omnivores" are recommended to supplement B12 - it's produced by soil bacteria that we would in the past get from fresh vegetables, and that's how animals should get it, too, but even now meat animals are given B12 supplements.
      - jniedrauer 7y ago
        Calcium is most certainly an issue. A lot of vegan dairy substitutes are already fortified with calcium for this specific reason. I'm still learning this stuff myself. But from the things I've read so far, vegans (especially the WFPB variety) can have difficulty getting: Vitamin B12, calcium[0], iron, and possibly a balanced amino acid profile if they have elevated protein requirements. A diet too high in carbs and too low in fat and protein can also cause long term problems like candida overgrowth and hormonal imbalances. [0]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3967195/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3967195/
wemdyjreichert 7y ago
Beans, lentils, and chickpeas are not a substitute for meat, in terms of either nutrition or flavor. Vegetable protein does not equal meat protein in terms of amino acids. Plant proteins are typically low in methionene, tryptophan, lycine, and isoleucine [0]. My point is not that vegetarianism is completely impossible, but that it is hard to get everything necessary. This is especially true for anyone who is trying to build muscle or get in shape. It certainly doesn't taste as good, especially if you don't want to take tons of time cooking. It still takes "gourmet" vegetarian food to compare to regular meat. [0] https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/animal-vs-plant-protein https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/animal-vs-plant-protein
- jniedrauer 7y ago
  > It certainly doesn't taste as good I'd say that's pretty subjective. I haven't missed meat from a taste perspective. The smell actually starts to get a little bit repulsive when I go for months without it. The rest of your point is very relevant though. I supplement with whey protein. But if it wasn't for that, I'd really be struggling to hit amino acid targets. Being an athletic vegan is borderline impossible in my opinion.
  - tgarv 7y ago
    Just copying and pasting this link from a sibling comment to yours to point out that oatmeal, nuts, and beans are generally good enough to cover the amino acids that are otherwise hard to get from a vegan diet https://vegfaqs.com/important-vegan-amino-acids/ https://vegfaqs.com/important-vegan-amino-acids/ Agreed that it's really hard to be an athletic vegan, but seems doable if you hit these amino targets and still supplement with pea protein or something.
  - spraak 7y ago
    > Being an athletic vegan is borderline impossible in my opinion. There are a great number of vegan athletes that disagree. E.g. Patrik Baboumian, one of the strongest people alive, is vegan. America's best Olympic weight lifter (maybe not currently but has been), Kendrick Ferris, is vegan. Keep an eye out for the release of the moving "The Game Changers" [1] for more. [1] http://gamechangersmovie.com/ http://gamechangersmovie.com/

There are tons of easy alternatives for vegetable protein, including good old lentils, beans, chickpeas, etc. You don't have to go out of your way to buy tempeh or gourmet vegetarian food.

jniedrauer 7y ago

Hitting high protein or low carb macros is difficult without some kind of protein supplement. I'm currently targeting 50% fat, 25% protein, 25% carbs for endurance reasons. Of course this isn't applicable to everyone. But it is applicable to anyone who needs to keep carbs low for health reasons, or anyone with some kind of athletic hobby. Also bear in mind that not all protein is created equal. If wheat gluten wasn't low in lysine, I'd eat a lot more of it.

oftenwrong 7y ago
So, basically: 1. "healthy" doesn't mean living a long life free of ailments. It means achieving your standard of athletic performance as a hobby. 2. "challenging" doesn't mean difficult. It means doing some research, buying more tempeh at once and maybe freezing it, or just buying a protein supplement.
- jniedrauer 7y ago
  > "challenging" doesn't mean difficult. It means doing some research, buying That's already too much. I can do that, and you can do that. Our jobs are to research things and then implement them. Most people will not or can not do this. Expecting them to is a waste of time. The way to solve this would be to de-incentivize meat production on the supply side, and encourage food distributors to fortify food with micronutrients that are commonly missing in vegetarian diets (vitamin B12, calcium, etc). Anything short of this is not going to do much except turn people off from being vegetarian.
  - oftenwrong 7y ago
    I just want to make sure I am clear on the argument you are making. Are you saying the average person can't easily be healthy without meat? That it would require them to do research? That it is easier for them to be healthy on meat-including diet without doing any research? I agree that none of this matters as long as people can eat meat. They will if they can.
    - jniedrauer 7y ago
      > I just want to make sure I am clear on the argument you are making Yes, that's a decent summery. Populations would be less healthy if meat just suddenly disappeared with no other changes. Although, in the United States at least, we massively over-consume meat to the detriment of our health. But we rely on it as a source of many micronutrients that we otherwise wouldn't get by default. Additionally, these changes will never happen without regulatory changes on the supply side to artificially drive up the cost of meat production.
  - spraak 7y ago
    I'm curious what else you think is missing in a vegan/vegetarian diet, because calcium is not one of them, and even "omnivores" are recommended to supplement B12 - it's produced by soil bacteria that we would in the past get from fresh vegetables, and that's how animals should get it, too, but even now meat animals are given B12 supplements.
    - jniedrauer 7y ago
      Calcium is most certainly an issue. A lot of vegan dairy substitutes are already fortified with calcium for this specific reason. I'm still learning this stuff myself. But from the things I've read so far, vegans (especially the WFPB variety) can have difficulty getting: Vitamin B12, calcium[0], iron, and possibly a balanced amino acid profile if they have elevated protein requirements. A diet too high in carbs and too low in fat and protein can also cause long term problems like candida overgrowth and hormonal imbalances. [0]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3967195/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3967195/

wemdyjreichert 7y ago

Beans, lentils, and chickpeas are not a substitute for meat, in terms of either nutrition or flavor. Vegetable protein does not equal meat protein in terms of amino acids. Plant proteins are typically low in methionene, tryptophan, lycine, and isoleucine [0]. My point is not that vegetarianism is completely impossible, but that it is hard to get everything necessary. This is especially true for anyone who is trying to build muscle or get in shape. It certainly doesn't taste as good, especially if you don't want to take tons of time cooking. It still takes "gourmet" vegetarian food to compare to regular meat. [0] https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/animal-vs-plant-protein https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/animal-vs-plant-protein

jniedrauer 7y ago
> It certainly doesn't taste as good I'd say that's pretty subjective. I haven't missed meat from a taste perspective. The smell actually starts to get a little bit repulsive when I go for months without it. The rest of your point is very relevant though. I supplement with whey protein. But if it wasn't for that, I'd really be struggling to hit amino acid targets. Being an athletic vegan is borderline impossible in my opinion.
- tgarv 7y ago
  Just copying and pasting this link from a sibling comment to yours to point out that oatmeal, nuts, and beans are generally good enough to cover the amino acids that are otherwise hard to get from a vegan diet https://vegfaqs.com/important-vegan-amino-acids/ https://vegfaqs.com/important-vegan-amino-acids/ Agreed that it's really hard to be an athletic vegan, but seems doable if you hit these amino targets and still supplement with pea protein or something.
- spraak 7y ago
  > Being an athletic vegan is borderline impossible in my opinion. There are a great number of vegan athletes that disagree. E.g. Patrik Baboumian, one of the strongest people alive, is vegan. America's best Olympic weight lifter (maybe not currently but has been), Kendrick Ferris, is vegan. Keep an eye out for the release of the moving "The Game Changers" [1] for more. [1] http://gamechangersmovie.com/ http://gamechangersmovie.com/