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These are good questions to ask of any union IMO. Workers wouldn't join a union they felt didn't advance their interests (and anecdotally, there's gotta be a re

These are good questions to ask of any union IMO. Workers wouldn't join a union they felt didn't advance their interests (and anecdotally, there's gotta be a reason union members are crazy about unions, right?) So this is good to investigate. Perhaps purporting to look out for the interests of an entire nation is too broad for any one organization. Some questions about your assignment of responsibilities that I think will clear things up: what if, hypothetically, the government was run by a ruling class who would leverage your need for income, healthcare, etc., in order to make you build things you didn't want to build? And specifically speaking of surveillance technology, what if you suspected they were building these tools for other countries as a trial run to later use on their own citizens? It's not that far-fetched. Otherwise, I think you have some great questions to ask of any union you're considering to represent you. But you're also representing them -- if you felt like you wouldn't get a say in what collective actions were taken, that's not a union I'd encourage you to work with. I specifically mentioned mine because I know their track record and philosophy and would like to see more of it. There's no hierarchy, no inaccessible higher realm of bureaucrats making the decisions, it's workers all the way down! Ask your local branch about it. Although there are often differences in opinion, bullying or harassing workers is not tolerated. Will it immediately and permanently improve your life? This ain't a fad diet and I won't market it like one, it's a chore sometimes honestly. I don't go to meetings and pay dues because I love it all the time. But I've seen results, and seen how much those in power want to keep us from realizing our collective ability to win some of their power through organizing. And I think you'll agree that the trajectory we're currently on is grim. Think it over.

Kalium 7y ago
I've known union workers who love it and I've known union workers who didn't. Both are common enough to be impossible to generalize from beyond opinions being as diverse as people. Anyone who says "there's no hierarchy" is, without exception, wrong. All they actually mean is "there is no explicit hierarchy". There's always an implicit one. The big difference between the two is generally accountability - explicit hierarchies can have it structured in. Implicit hierarchies get to say "We're all just workers here!" to dodge accountability. > And I think you'll agree that the trajectory we're currently on is grim. Think it over. You're right. I do agree. That said, I also grew up in a place where short-sighted unions helped turn a thriving industrial area into a post-industrial wasteland. Just because one course is grim doesn't mean I want to trade it for any other course.
- anarchodev 7y ago
  The whole reason this thread exists at all is because the explicit hierarchy you have so much faith in is not working, and never really has. I'd love to see an example of a union using their structural philosophy as an excuse to evade accountability. Don't suspect you had one in mind?

Kalium 7y ago

I've known union workers who love it and I've known union workers who didn't. Both are common enough to be impossible to generalize from beyond opinions being as diverse as people. Anyone who says "there's no hierarchy" is, without exception, wrong. All they actually mean is "there is no explicit hierarchy". There's always an implicit one. The big difference between the two is generally accountability - explicit hierarchies can have it structured in. Implicit hierarchies get to say "We're all just workers here!" to dodge accountability. > And I think you'll agree that the trajectory we're currently on is grim. Think it over. You're right. I do agree. That said, I also grew up in a place where short-sighted unions helped turn a thriving industrial area into a post-industrial wasteland. Just because one course is grim doesn't mean I want to trade it for any other course.

anarchodev 7y ago
The whole reason this thread exists at all is because the explicit hierarchy you have so much faith in is not working, and never really has. I'd love to see an example of a union using their structural philosophy as an excuse to evade accountability. Don't suspect you had one in mind?