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> Which is really pathetic if you think about it. Blaming individuals for a demographic problem is not productive. It doesn't seem like you read that part thou

> Which is really pathetic if you think about it. Blaming individuals for a demographic problem is not productive. It doesn't seem like you read that part though...

cageface 8y ago
How is it a demographic problem? Who is forcing you to eat meat? Most societal changes are brought about by individuals with the courage to question something that is wrong but socially normalized.
- overthemoon 8y ago
  Reducing systemic, global issues to the actions of the individuals is simplistic. It's technically true that if everyone stopped eating meat tomorrow these industries would collapse, but it's also true that if people would simply stop killing each other, we wouldn't need prisons. People are not autonomous rational actors, we're creatures with a context, wills, and desires. "Simply be more virtuous" glosses over why the choices people have to make and are able to make exist in the first place. Don't eat meat, sure, I won't argue that in the right context that's the virtuous choice, but why is it on US to change, rather than the people at the actual levers of power?
  - komali2 8y ago
    Also, "simply be more virtuous" is never a solution that has ever worked. I've had similar conversations - "getting a job is easy, just pick a good major and work hard like I did." Sure, but what did standing there and saying that do? When I go meet with the city council, and I say those exact words, what has been accomplished? What policy can be written, what programs can be started, based off casting an accusation like that?
- jniedrauer 8y ago
  Who is forcing you to use single use plastic? Who is forcing you to drive a car powered by an internal combustion engine? Who is forcing you to eat food produced on degrading land? That's not how the tragedy of the commons works. > Most societal changes are brought about by individuals with the courage to question something that is wrong but socially normalized. [Citation needed] The truth is that most sweeping societal change is driven by a central government and always has been. Everything from the transition to city-states, the industrial revolution to civil rights. Individuals convince their central governments to act, but you can't just convince an entire population to change their mind without a monopoly on violence.
- komali2 8y ago
  >Who is forcing you to eat meat? Are people "forced" to celebrate Valentine's day? Are they "forced" to wear blue jeans? Listen to either rock OR pop OR rap OR country? Demographic == culture. We eat meat because we eat meat because we ate meat, for ten thousand years. Do you blame a child for their "choice" of religion? Do you blame a family that drives to work over taking the bus, which sucks 4 hours extra out of their day because they live in Pocatello, Idaho and don't have much of a transit system?

> Which is really pathetic if you think about it. Blaming individuals for a demographic problem is not productive. It doesn't seem like you read that part though...

cageface 8y ago

How is it a demographic problem? Who is forcing you to eat meat? Most societal changes are brought about by individuals with the courage to question something that is wrong but socially normalized.

overthemoon 8y ago
Reducing systemic, global issues to the actions of the individuals is simplistic. It's technically true that if everyone stopped eating meat tomorrow these industries would collapse, but it's also true that if people would simply stop killing each other, we wouldn't need prisons. People are not autonomous rational actors, we're creatures with a context, wills, and desires. "Simply be more virtuous" glosses over why the choices people have to make and are able to make exist in the first place. Don't eat meat, sure, I won't argue that in the right context that's the virtuous choice, but why is it on US to change, rather than the people at the actual levers of power?
- komali2 8y ago
  Also, "simply be more virtuous" is never a solution that has ever worked. I've had similar conversations - "getting a job is easy, just pick a good major and work hard like I did." Sure, but what did standing there and saying that do? When I go meet with the city council, and I say those exact words, what has been accomplished? What policy can be written, what programs can be started, based off casting an accusation like that?
jniedrauer 8y ago
Who is forcing you to use single use plastic? Who is forcing you to drive a car powered by an internal combustion engine? Who is forcing you to eat food produced on degrading land? That's not how the tragedy of the commons works. > Most societal changes are brought about by individuals with the courage to question something that is wrong but socially normalized. [Citation needed] The truth is that most sweeping societal change is driven by a central government and always has been. Everything from the transition to city-states, the industrial revolution to civil rights. Individuals convince their central governments to act, but you can't just convince an entire population to change their mind without a monopoly on violence.
komali2 8y ago
>Who is forcing you to eat meat? Are people "forced" to celebrate Valentine's day? Are they "forced" to wear blue jeans? Listen to either rock OR pop OR rap OR country? Demographic == culture. We eat meat because we eat meat because we ate meat, for ten thousand years. Do you blame a child for their "choice" of religion? Do you blame a family that drives to work over taking the bus, which sucks 4 hours extra out of their day because they live in Pocatello, Idaho and don't have much of a transit system?