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>if the target is approached and asked if they need help, there’s a good chance the theft never happens... Good security would see your "target" as the "subjec

>if the target is approached and asked if they need help, there’s a good chance the theft never happens... Good security would see your "target" as the "subject". The target is the guy taking advantage of the new camera prediction system by waiting for a subject of interest to enter the area before proceeding to rip you off while you're otherwise engaged. My guess is that the shoplifting rings will have a field day in any mall relying on tech like this.

mc32 8y ago
Wouldn’t systems like this have the intelligence to have these known rings in their databases? Of course they can have new (unknown) recruits but that gets costly. I can have sympathy for the teenager who steals a snickers bar, ok. But these roving bands of shoplifting thieves, I hope they get caught and put out of business.
- bilbo0s 8y ago
  >I hope they get caught and put out of business... They may be caught, but it won't be by a prediction system. I can pretty much guarantee they will be the ones taking advantage of the prediction system. These rings are very difficult to crack even by seasoned store detectives and law enforcement. I would not count on AI/ML to do what your average city detectives can't, that's just wishful thinking. If these rings get cracked, there will be some clever, human based, detective work behind the takedowns. AI/ML is just too easy to trick in all the predictable ways. It'll likely derail the opportunistic shoplifters, or less intelligent shoplifters that work alone. I don't think it will get close to disrupting these shoplifting networks though. (And in fairness, even the human police officers are easily diverted if you appeal to their biases. That's just the neuro-psychological nature of attention. No way around it in humans, just have to be aware of it and trust your hunches. If you have a hunch someone is trying to divert you, step back and take another look at the big picture.)
  - mc32 8y ago
    Are they more difficult to crack than professional card counters in Vegas who get tracked and then this info disseminated to all other venues?
    - bilbo0s 8y ago
      Yes. Because in casinos The counter always has to do business with you. (ie-they give chips, specifically to make everyone cash out.) You can review all the video of the winners. You can review the video of people around the winners. Etc etc etc. This makes card counters much easier to identify. A shoplifting ring operating in, say, a crowded walmart during the Christmas season may do business with you, or not? Just depends on their strategy. Maybe they just wait for the right number of black people to go into your store, and then clean you out and leave while security attention is elsewhere. Which one of the, statistically, 50% of 5 to 10 thousand people leaving the Walmart without purchasing that day was the shoplifter? That's a lot of film to go through. So in the case of casino security, the counters always have to present and identify themselves to you, making any review of a winner trivial. Whereas with retail security, that's not the case. This is a subtle but important distinction that, in the case of a large retail establishment, can significantly increase the difficulty of identifying shoplifters via film study. This is why in retail security, so much effort goes into identifying the shoplifter before they leave the store. Because if you can't make the attribution at that time, it's doubtful you ever will. In casino security, it's actually possible to identify the counters even after they leave the premises, and prevent their next visit.
      - mc32 8y ago
        You’ve got a very big point. Would increasing cameras and maybe putting them st different levels aid in identifying shoplifting activities? Clothing retailers can have a harder time due to privacy issues in the changing rooms, but the Targets, Lowe’s, Kohl’s, etc... heavy coats, pacing aisles, bags, etc along with video tracking.

mc32 8y ago

Wouldn’t systems like this have the intelligence to have these known rings in their databases? Of course they can have new (unknown) recruits but that gets costly. I can have sympathy for the teenager who steals a snickers bar, ok. But these roving bands of shoplifting thieves, I hope they get caught and put out of business.

bilbo0s 8y ago
>I hope they get caught and put out of business... They may be caught, but it won't be by a prediction system. I can pretty much guarantee they will be the ones taking advantage of the prediction system. These rings are very difficult to crack even by seasoned store detectives and law enforcement. I would not count on AI/ML to do what your average city detectives can't, that's just wishful thinking. If these rings get cracked, there will be some clever, human based, detective work behind the takedowns. AI/ML is just too easy to trick in all the predictable ways. It'll likely derail the opportunistic shoplifters, or less intelligent shoplifters that work alone. I don't think it will get close to disrupting these shoplifting networks though. (And in fairness, even the human police officers are easily diverted if you appeal to their biases. That's just the neuro-psychological nature of attention. No way around it in humans, just have to be aware of it and trust your hunches. If you have a hunch someone is trying to divert you, step back and take another look at the big picture.)
- mc32 8y ago
  Are they more difficult to crack than professional card counters in Vegas who get tracked and then this info disseminated to all other venues?
  - bilbo0s 8y ago
    Yes. Because in casinos The counter always has to do business with you. (ie-they give chips, specifically to make everyone cash out.) You can review all the video of the winners. You can review the video of people around the winners. Etc etc etc. This makes card counters much easier to identify. A shoplifting ring operating in, say, a crowded walmart during the Christmas season may do business with you, or not? Just depends on their strategy. Maybe they just wait for the right number of black people to go into your store, and then clean you out and leave while security attention is elsewhere. Which one of the, statistically, 50% of 5 to 10 thousand people leaving the Walmart without purchasing that day was the shoplifter? That's a lot of film to go through. So in the case of casino security, the counters always have to present and identify themselves to you, making any review of a winner trivial. Whereas with retail security, that's not the case. This is a subtle but important distinction that, in the case of a large retail establishment, can significantly increase the difficulty of identifying shoplifters via film study. This is why in retail security, so much effort goes into identifying the shoplifter before they leave the store. Because if you can't make the attribution at that time, it's doubtful you ever will. In casino security, it's actually possible to identify the counters even after they leave the premises, and prevent their next visit.
    - mc32 8y ago
      You’ve got a very big point. Would increasing cameras and maybe putting them st different levels aid in identifying shoplifting activities? Clothing retailers can have a harder time due to privacy issues in the changing rooms, but the Targets, Lowe’s, Kohl’s, etc... heavy coats, pacing aisles, bags, etc along with video tracking.