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> They have never used a proper programming language and have either never learned or have forgotten what it takes to make solid software. I've done C, C++, C

> They have never used a proper programming language and have either never learned or have forgotten what it takes to make solid software. I've done C, C++, C#, Java, Basic and Python for a living in the past and I always make rock solid software. JavaScript is by far the most productive programming language that I've used to do this. People who think there's such a thing as an objectively "proper" programming language that they haven't even named are actually the problem with this industry, not JavaScript developers.

lallysingh 8y ago
> I always make rock solid software Everything else you claim is suspect because you said this.
- wayneftw 8y ago
  There's really nothing but an opinion in my response (and in the item I'm responding to) and a bit of bragging certainly doesn't invalidate that in the slightest. Besides that, if you think that there are no people out there who can consistently write solid software, well...you're just flat out wrong. (And if you think you can't find them on HN, well wrong again...)
  - citrablue 8y ago
    I think the apparent hubris is what they're referring to, and that it is a negative indicator of developer self-awareness, while humility and willingness to acknowledge past mistakes are positive signs. Honestly, if you've always delivered rock solid software, you're some sort of mythical creature.
    - ben_w 8y ago
      There’s a comic, I forget where, that says the difference between good and bad developers is that while both cause the code reviewer to exclaim “WTF?”, the bad developers causes far more of them. :)
      - jxcl 8y ago
        http://i.imgur.com/J1svNp7.jpg http://i.imgur.com/J1svNp7.jpg
        ben_w 8y ago
        That’s the badger :)
    - wayneftw 8y ago
      > I think the apparent hubris is what they're referring to, and that it is a negative indicator of developer self-awareness, while humility and willingness to acknowledge past mistakes are positive signs. Yes, anyone who's ever done a slight bit of bragging, even if it's actually true, is automatically and forever, completely lacking developer self-awareness. > Honestly, if you've always delivered rock solid software, you're some sort of mythical creature. There are whole agencies full of people that do it. But I get it, the thought that it's somehow impossible probably makes most software devs feel better about accepting their own mediocrity. I love how everything is so black and white to HNers. "If you've ever bragged, you can't be telling the truth." or "If you use JavaScript, you're not a real programmer." It's very comical.
- saiya-jin 8y ago
  Indeed, it takes a quite bit of experience to realize how fragile our products are, especially given enough time. If some dev claim they never deliver bugs, have 100% coverage with tests etc. thats a huge warning sign. I've seen great cathedrals of frameworks and patterns being built by smart experienced guys over few years, which ended up in quite a bit of mess at the end. Add a junior or two and see what added value they bring

lallysingh 8y ago

> I always make rock solid software Everything else you claim is suspect because you said this.

wayneftw 8y ago
There's really nothing but an opinion in my response (and in the item I'm responding to) and a bit of bragging certainly doesn't invalidate that in the slightest. Besides that, if you think that there are no people out there who can consistently write solid software, well...you're just flat out wrong. (And if you think you can't find them on HN, well wrong again...)
- citrablue 8y ago
  I think the apparent hubris is what they're referring to, and that it is a negative indicator of developer self-awareness, while humility and willingness to acknowledge past mistakes are positive signs. Honestly, if you've always delivered rock solid software, you're some sort of mythical creature.
  - ben_w 8y ago
    There’s a comic, I forget where, that says the difference between good and bad developers is that while both cause the code reviewer to exclaim “WTF?”, the bad developers causes far more of them. :)
    - jxcl 8y ago
      http://i.imgur.com/J1svNp7.jpg http://i.imgur.com/J1svNp7.jpg
      - ben_w 8y ago
        That’s the badger :)
  - wayneftw 8y ago
    > I think the apparent hubris is what they're referring to, and that it is a negative indicator of developer self-awareness, while humility and willingness to acknowledge past mistakes are positive signs. Yes, anyone who's ever done a slight bit of bragging, even if it's actually true, is automatically and forever, completely lacking developer self-awareness. > Honestly, if you've always delivered rock solid software, you're some sort of mythical creature. There are whole agencies full of people that do it. But I get it, the thought that it's somehow impossible probably makes most software devs feel better about accepting their own mediocrity. I love how everything is so black and white to HNers. "If you've ever bragged, you can't be telling the truth." or "If you use JavaScript, you're not a real programmer." It's very comical.
saiya-jin 8y ago
Indeed, it takes a quite bit of experience to realize how fragile our products are, especially given enough time. If some dev claim they never deliver bugs, have 100% coverage with tests etc. thats a huge warning sign. I've seen great cathedrals of frameworks and patterns being built by smart experienced guys over few years, which ended up in quite a bit of mess at the end. Add a junior or two and see what added value they bring