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Or more generally, why do so many people attribute particular competence to, uh, state actors? While he was at the NSA, Edward Snowden complained that it store

by Arnt 8y ago

Or more generally, why do so many people attribute particular competence to, uh, state actors? While he was at the NSA, Edward Snowden complained that it stores more information on Americans than on Russians. He complained that that's illegal, but there's another remarkable facet to it: How good is the NSA at collecting information from Russia, then? I can hardly believe that the NSA tries to collect more data on Americans than on its actual mission, so how good is the NSA at its mission? There are many other examples, like the German service that's supposed to monitor the nazis and missed the a group that made and sold a DVD about its killings. It seems so strange to assume higher-than-average competence in organisations like that.

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ForHackernews 8y ago
Fairly good, I'd reckon https://www.wired.com/2015/02/nsa-firmware-hacking/ https://www.wired.com/2015/02/nsa-firmware-hacking/
- Arnt 8y ago
  That's awesome and reminds me of this sparetime project: http://spritesmods.com/?art=hddhack http://spritesmods.com/?art=hddhack
notahacker 8y ago
In general, it makes sense to assume that stuff which irrespective of competence would require large amounts of resources, access to intercepts or the ability to flagrantly breach local laws without anyone stepping in might have state involvement, especially if there's an obvious motive for the state to target that person/organization. Not convinced that guessing private keys of anonymous randoms for a few million in assets of limited fungibility falls into that category. I'm not sure it's a question of competence in this case so much as why would a state be the ones tackling these accounts, when a lone criminal with relevant knowledge of cryptography would have the ability and a lot more motivation to do it?
- eridius 8y ago
  Why would a criminal leave the coins to sit in the final wallet undisturbed? The article said the wallet only had incoming transactions and never sent any coins anywhere. Surely if you're a criminal organization stealing cryptocurrency you'd want to actually use it.
  - notahacker 8y ago
    It's not necessarily the only wallet a criminal has access to, and most people don't draw on their savings account all the time. Can't fathom why a government would want to write algorithms that quietly steal tokens from thousands of random individuals unfortunate enough to have particularly crackable private keys and send them to a particular dormant account either. It's not like there's a lack of other crypto-heist stories out there.
    - eridius 8y ago
      A government has a much more plausible reason to be willing to siphon off and stockpile large amounts of cryptocurrency without using it, just in case they ever do need to have a bunch of coins on hand for something.
- freewilly1040 8y ago
  A state like North Korea is different than a state like Russia or the US. It’s possible that they employ hackers who’s mandate is to generate revenue.
danarmak 8y ago
The NSA is probably better at domestic surveillance because it's much easier and/or cheaper than foreign surveillance. If people of the same ability level work on both, the domestic results will be better. That doesn't meant the NSA is incompetent.
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imglorp 8y ago
The biggest threat to the NSA and its budget proponents is not foreign. Oh and their mission changed but it's still self contradictory. https://withoutbullshit.com/blog/nsa-adopts-new-watchwords-mission-values-statements https://withoutbullshit.com/blog/nsa-adopts-new-watchwords-m...
bun_at_work 8y ago
You're comparing two different things, though. Collecting data, and further, processing that collected data, is fundamentally different than executing a difficult, targeted attack. State level actors have massive amounts of resources, which makes them uniquely situated to perform difficult tasks like cracking encryption keys or developing insanely complex exploits. So - the particular competence people give state actors generally has to do with that level of resources, while the same state actors are accurately attributed the incompetence that comes with large bureaucracies.

by Arnt 8y ago

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ForHackernews 8y ago

Fairly good, I'd reckon https://www.wired.com/2015/02/nsa-firmware-hacking/ https://www.wired.com/2015/02/nsa-firmware-hacking/

Arnt 8y ago
That's awesome and reminds me of this sparetime project: http://spritesmods.com/?art=hddhack http://spritesmods.com/?art=hddhack

notahacker 8y ago

In general, it makes sense to assume that stuff which irrespective of competence would require large amounts of resources, access to intercepts or the ability to flagrantly breach local laws without anyone stepping in might have state involvement, especially if there's an obvious motive for the state to target that person/organization. Not convinced that guessing private keys of anonymous randoms for a few million in assets of limited fungibility falls into that category. I'm not sure it's a question of competence in this case so much as why would a state be the ones tackling these accounts, when a lone criminal with relevant knowledge of cryptography would have the ability and a lot more motivation to do it?

eridius 8y ago
Why would a criminal leave the coins to sit in the final wallet undisturbed? The article said the wallet only had incoming transactions and never sent any coins anywhere. Surely if you're a criminal organization stealing cryptocurrency you'd want to actually use it.
- notahacker 8y ago
  It's not necessarily the only wallet a criminal has access to, and most people don't draw on their savings account all the time. Can't fathom why a government would want to write algorithms that quietly steal tokens from thousands of random individuals unfortunate enough to have particularly crackable private keys and send them to a particular dormant account either. It's not like there's a lack of other crypto-heist stories out there.
  - eridius 8y ago
    A government has a much more plausible reason to be willing to siphon off and stockpile large amounts of cryptocurrency without using it, just in case they ever do need to have a bunch of coins on hand for something.
freewilly1040 8y ago
A state like North Korea is different than a state like Russia or the US. It’s possible that they employ hackers who’s mandate is to generate revenue.

danarmak 8y ago

The NSA is probably better at domestic surveillance because it's much easier and/or cheaper than foreign surveillance. If people of the same ability level work on both, the domestic results will be better. That doesn't meant the NSA is incompetent.

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imglorp 8y ago

The biggest threat to the NSA and its budget proponents is not foreign. Oh and their mission changed but it's still self contradictory. https://withoutbullshit.com/blog/nsa-adopts-new-watchwords-mission-values-statements https://withoutbullshit.com/blog/nsa-adopts-new-watchwords-m...

bun_at_work 8y ago

You're comparing two different things, though. Collecting data, and further, processing that collected data, is fundamentally different than executing a difficult, targeted attack. State level actors have massive amounts of resources, which makes them uniquely situated to perform difficult tasks like cracking encryption keys or developing insanely complex exploits. So - the particular competence people give state actors generally has to do with that level of resources, while the same state actors are accurately attributed the incompetence that comes with large bureaucracies.