5 ms·

Does the 2016 refresh not count?

notatoad 7y ago
The 2016 refresh was basically equivalent to most models mid-cycle design update. It was exactly that, a refresh, not a replacement model.
- sandos 7y ago
  WV seems to update their cars basically every year. Also mixing and matching single parts, like updating the headlights year X, then year X+1 a total refresh with newer headlights that look almost like the smaller refresh from the year before! I am impressed that they can do stuff like that, but they are also kinda big....
rootusrootus 7y ago
Not to me. I judge Tesla on the same metrics as any other car company. The Model S is getting long in the tooth.
- greglindahl 7y ago
  As long as I can smoke that Maserati at a stoplight on Sand Hill Road, not a problem.
  - saiya-jin 7y ago
    People in the luxury goods category expect much, much more than just straight line performance. Handling the corners or interior aesthetics and quality isn't something I would choose Tesla for for example.
    - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
      I love how this is (was) down-voted but this is exactly kind of comment people on HN would use to poo poo the various ~700hp straight line rockets that FCA sells (which you can get with arguably better interiors than any Tesla). "It's not a true luxury car because it's only good in a straight line" is a perfectly valid (and widely held) opinion but if you invoke it against Tesla that's not ok.
  - floatingatoll 7y ago
    I’ve done that in PA with a Ford Focus because the Maserati driver was on their cell phone. They obviously caught up and passed me once they bothered to start driving, but I bet they didn’t look at their cell phone the rest of their drive home, either.
  - rootusrootus 7y ago
    I agree. After driving a P3D this weekend one of my conclusions was that if you wanted to street race, there were very few cars that would beat it aside from one of the P-model S's. But if you want a drivers car, Tesla is not currently in that market. I look forward to seeing someone serve that market. Maybe BMW will try to live up to their motto again.
- nkristoffersen 7y ago
  Really? So many models live forever. Do you think the "Mustang" is long in the tooth?
  - Unklejoe 7y ago
    For what it’s worth, the Mustang had a somewhat significant refresh in 2011 (totally new engine design, but not considered a new generation), then another refresh around 2014 (mostly exterior body changes IIRC).
    - rootusrootus 7y ago
      2015 it got a new chassis, that was the year Ford switched from S197 to S550. They will introduce a new one in 2021, the S650.
    - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
      With the Mustang is that there's only so much you can do and still stay at the Mustang price point. The changes made to the Mustang (and Camaro for that matter) is dependent on technological progress making things that were once reserved for expensive cars cheap and regulatory compliance forcing updates to the main body structure (no reason to spend money to re-tool for a different tub if you don't need to since you gain basically nothing from doing that by itself). Adding IRS was pretty significant though.
      - rootusrootus 7y ago
        The Mustang and Camaro are both pretty incredible cars, managing to stay fairly inexpensive* while gaining tremendous performance just in the past 10-15 years. I remember the year when the Mustang GT first matched and then exceeded the BMW M3 on the track. The rest is history, the current pony cars are amazing performers and excellent values. * To be fair, both Mustang GT and Camaro SS are objectively not inexpensive cars except when you compare them to other cars of similar performance.
  - rootusrootus 7y ago

The 2016 refresh was basically equivalent to most models mid-cycle design update. It was exactly that, a refresh, not a replacement model.

sandos 7y ago
WV seems to update their cars basically every year. Also mixing and matching single parts, like updating the headlights year X, then year X+1 a total refresh with newer headlights that look almost like the smaller refresh from the year before! I am impressed that they can do stuff like that, but they are also kinda big....

rootusrootus 7y ago

Not to me. I judge Tesla on the same metrics as any other car company. The Model S is getting long in the tooth.

greglindahl 7y ago
As long as I can smoke that Maserati at a stoplight on Sand Hill Road, not a problem.
- saiya-jin 7y ago
  People in the luxury goods category expect much, much more than just straight line performance. Handling the corners or interior aesthetics and quality isn't something I would choose Tesla for for example.
  - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
    I love how this is (was) down-voted but this is exactly kind of comment people on HN would use to poo poo the various ~700hp straight line rockets that FCA sells (which you can get with arguably better interiors than any Tesla). "It's not a true luxury car because it's only good in a straight line" is a perfectly valid (and widely held) opinion but if you invoke it against Tesla that's not ok.
- floatingatoll 7y ago
  I’ve done that in PA with a Ford Focus because the Maserati driver was on their cell phone. They obviously caught up and passed me once they bothered to start driving, but I bet they didn’t look at their cell phone the rest of their drive home, either.
- rootusrootus 7y ago
  I agree. After driving a P3D this weekend one of my conclusions was that if you wanted to street race, there were very few cars that would beat it aside from one of the P-model S's. But if you want a drivers car, Tesla is not currently in that market. I look forward to seeing someone serve that market. Maybe BMW will try to live up to their motto again.
nkristoffersen 7y ago
Really? So many models live forever. Do you think the "Mustang" is long in the tooth?
- Unklejoe 7y ago
  For what it’s worth, the Mustang had a somewhat significant refresh in 2011 (totally new engine design, but not considered a new generation), then another refresh around 2014 (mostly exterior body changes IIRC).
  - rootusrootus 7y ago
    2015 it got a new chassis, that was the year Ford switched from S197 to S550. They will introduce a new one in 2021, the S650.
  - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
    With the Mustang is that there's only so much you can do and still stay at the Mustang price point. The changes made to the Mustang (and Camaro for that matter) is dependent on technological progress making things that were once reserved for expensive cars cheap and regulatory compliance forcing updates to the main body structure (no reason to spend money to re-tool for a different tub if you don't need to since you gain basically nothing from doing that by itself). Adding IRS was pretty significant though.
    - rootusrootus 7y ago
      The Mustang and Camaro are both pretty incredible cars, managing to stay fairly inexpensive* while gaining tremendous performance just in the past 10-15 years. I remember the year when the Mustang GT first matched and then exceeded the BMW M3 on the track. The rest is history, the current pony cars are amazing performers and excellent values. * To be fair, both Mustang GT and Camaro SS are objectively not inexpensive cars except when you compare them to other cars of similar performance.
- rootusrootus 7y ago