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This "continuous deployment" for cars must be a logistical nightmare. To do repairs for a given vehicle, keeping track of what parts are backward compatible wo
by jac_no_k 7y ago
This "continuous deployment" for cars must be a logistical nightmare. To do repairs for a given vehicle, keeping track of what parts are backward compatible would be challenging. What if it's a compatibility breaking change? Then keeping inventory for older cars would become problematic.
Unless they do design with maximum compatibility. Then it gets interesting as upgrades are possible.
While B.EV cars maintenance is low, my car 7 months into ownership revealed bad battery cells that needed replacing. If the car was say five years old, would this replacement have been possible?
- toomuchtodo 7y agoTesla's supply chain management system was built in house. Combined with configuration tied to the VIN, I don't see it as being onerous. Backward compatibility, while not easy, is straightforward (dependency graph). If a subsystem incompatibility exists and parts cannot be sourced from Tesla inventory or an OEM, you replace the entire system (and pray to whatever deity you believe in it happens under warranty). Tesla provides a very generous battery pack & powertrain warranty (8 years/infinite miles for S and X, 8 year/100k miles for Model 3); you're not going to be opening up the high voltage pack to replace cells yourself. Tesla will perform the work, or swap the pack if necessary. EDIT: Note this is only a comment on Tesla's supply chain tracking system, and doesn't discuss their difficulty in getting replacement parts out to customers.
- ummonk 7y agoWell, given that people report their Teslas sitting in the shop for months to get repaired, the logistical supply chain doesn’t seem to be working too well.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- wmf 7y agoI think that's an intentional choice to optimize sales of new cars. Every part made goes into a new Tesla and there are no replacement parts available.
- hi5eyes 7y agorevolutionizing the supply chain and auto industry
- olivermarks 7y agoWalled garden revolution. Going to the breakers/wrecking yard for parts is akin to open source software. You are locking yourself into proprietary code, parts and pricing in this Tesla 'revolution'. A wing mirror costs $550 for example. Only authorized Tesla maintenance is permitted etc etc...
- alasdair_ 7y ago>A wing mirror costs $550 for example I wish. I was quoted $1450 for a new wing mirror for my wife's X...
- NotSammyHagar 7y agoread the story of the guy with the bmw who tried to swap in a part from another one, and it wouldn't work unless the dealer programmed it to work with that new car's vehicle id. so he sold his car.
- sjwright 7y agoThat's a common problem when trying to upgrade the iDrive head unit with one from a donor car. It can be done but requires special tools and knowledge. In BMW's defence, they would validate the car as a system and wouldn't want to be seen to be giving implied consent for making these frankencars. Software configuration isn't like hardware; a bolt can be replaced with any bolt made by anyone as long as it is of comparable specification.
- mdorazio 7y agoThis is great until you want to do repairs or maintenance yourself or via lower cost aftermarket. It’s essentially locking you into the OEM service model.
- toomuchtodo 7y agoCorrect. This is a choice you make as a Tesla customer (disclaimer: I have made this choice). I understand Tesla's position (brand protection, workload reduction), but also support Right To Repair; I don't have a solution I can offer in this instance. My hope is that Right to Repair legislation and Tesla's profitability intersect at some point in the future, where allowing aftermarket work is more palatable to Tesla while also requiring them to support it (Massachusetts has Right To Repair legislation that does require Tesla to provide some bare minimum support to customers and techs in that state). If I'm Elon Musk, I don't want a news piece about Joe Schmoe electrocuted in his garage when he attempted maintenance on a Tesla 400V battery pack. So you sell to people who aren't interested in that use case. Like a baby cub and mama bear, you must protect the brand until it has grown big enough to protect itself.
- maxerickson 7y agoRight to repair isn't just about J. Schmoe in their garage though. You also have to consider other shops that are well qualified to do the repairs.
- toomuchtodo 7y agoI've also been in "professional" shops where the qualification is questionable, but I understand your argument. There are Tesla Certified body shops; we'll see how the workload shakes out between those facilities and Tesla Service centers. Tesla recently updated their service intervals for all vehicle models due to fleet data showing less service was required than previously indicated [1]. How many times have you seen an automaker do that? [1] https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-car-maintenance-plan-service/ https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-car-maintenance-plan-service... (Tesla’s vehicle reliability makes way for as-needed service, no annual maintenance needed)
- mecameron 7y agoI bought a 2013 Model S recently that had its wheels swapped with a 2016 Model S by a third party before sale (I didn't care for the 21" wheels that were on the 2013, and the buyer of the 2016 wanted them). Shortly after driving away from the dealer, the tire pressure sensor system reported faults. After bringing it in to Tesla they said the newer tires and older car were not compatible, but they could easily downgrade the electronics in the wheels or upgrade the electronics on the car. They were both about the same cost, so I just had them update the wheels.
- walrus01 7y agoI'd bet that the TPMS (tire pressure monitor/sensor) in the wheels is an off the shelf component purchased from a top-10 supplier in the automotive industry, and the problem was as simple as not having the TPMS programmed for the car. This is the same problem you can encounter if you replace all four TPMS in most any medium to high end car manufactured after about 2006, and the tire shop forgets to use their handheld wireless EEPROM flasher to apply the car's VIN to the new TPMS modules.
- olivermarks 7y agoThis sort of complexity is why I like pre smog era cars
- gtaylor 7y agoEhh, I never want to go back to the days of points and carbs.
- diminoten 7y agoAren't those the cars that made the smog tho?
- baroffoos 7y agoSame reason I like bikes. I can pull the whole thing apart in a day and understand what every bit does. As soon as you start including electronics you end up with black boxes that no human could ever understand entirely.
- Pfhreak 7y agoI'm guessing they have software that contains a full bill of materials for each vehicle. Boeing does this for every individual plane, and a plane is significantly more complex than a Tesla. I'm sure they are very aware of how many of each parts are out there on the road. I wouldn't be surprised if the vehicles themselves periodically phone home with use information so they can predict wear and tear.
- lallysingh 7y agoAFAIK that's pretty standard for most manufacturers. I can look up my SUV's VIN online and get its full configuration.
- greglindahl 7y agoYou can get the basics of a Tesla from the vin, but there are more details than just the basics.
- rootusrootus 7y agoEven if Tesla can themselves manage the logistics, it's certainly a negative for potential consumers, especially second+ owners. Maybe Tesla will offer a VIN lookup so you can find out what a particular car's specs are while you're shopping.
- cperciva 7y agoIs it any worse than what other manufacturers deal with? The 2019 Honda Accord shares some parts with the 2018 Honda Accord which shares some parts with the 2017 model... when something breaks in my Honda the first question is "do they still make/use this part or did they change it in newer models?"
- AceJohnny2 7y agoGee, I hope they have some kind of system to track that. Maybe software even?
- afturner 7y agoI find it hard to imagine they wouldn't
- NullPrefix 7y agoThat was sarcasm
- AceJohnny2 7y agotangentially, MFW I realized hours later who I sarcasmed at.
- axaxs 7y agoYou jest, but years ago I worked for one of the largest auto parts places. You have no idea how many times you'd input year, make, model, and trim, just to be presented with multiple choice questions. Nobody knew how big their drums were, in inches, or the number of blades on their fan, the length of their belts, etc. Apparently a lot of mixing and matching happens. Some folks legitimately had to give us a prior year for us to find the right part.
- guardiangod 7y agoYep. Just went thru that 2 days ago with my father's GMC W series truck. The air filter I got from the retailer is for the previous generation, even though that's what their system says for the truck. I had to hand the old filter to the store staff and have him copy the FRAM part number.
- DeonPenny 7y agoThey have very few moving parts. I am guessing they are switching battery pack modules out so it's not that hard. Theres battery packs, motos and basically thats it.
- jakobegger 7y agoThere are a lot of moving parts in the suspension, the transmission, the battery cooling system, the AC, the power windows, power steering, all the other comfort features like electric seats, electric tailgate, ... Just because it doesn't need an oil change doesn't mean that it doesn't need service.
- DeonPenny 7y agoTheres no transmission, the battery cooling system isn't a moving part, the AC has one moving part, power windows have 1 moving parts, power steering have one moving part, electric components aren't moving parts. Moving parts are mechanical parts, electronic, and pumps because of simplicity work for longer.
- jakobegger 7y agoLast time I had my brakes serviced, the workshop didn't know which discs to order because they used two different dimensions in the same model year. I had to come in, they had to take off the wheel, and measure the disc. So I don't think this is unique to Tesla.
- spiderfarmer 7y agoI operate several websites that help people find the right part for their car or tractor. It's always a nightmare.
- djaychela 7y agoI doubt it's significantly different from an ICE repair point of view. I do a lot of car repairs myself, and have done things for friends in the past. One memorable time I was helping a friend who had a Toyota van for work (can't remember the exact model, this was early 90s). It needed new brake hoses. After some messing about with pattern ones that didn't fit, we went to Toyota and spoke to the parts guy who said there were TWENTY SEVEN different options for the front brake hoses on that van, and even having the VIN was no help - we needed to take the original in for him to identify it correctly, as even the microfiche (yes, we're talking that long ago) wasn't accurate enough to identify it - he ordered (I think) 5 in which looked like a match and sent the other four back. While this is an extreme example, there are plenty of different options on most cars as the manufacturers will source different parts for different markets, and in some cases totally different subsystems which look identical externally but are totally different functionally (immobiliser and ECU on a Mk 4 golf springs to mind).
- PinguTS 7y agoEach OEM, including Tesla, maintain a database where each ever produced vehicles with all the options, including changes are recorded. Except, when they screw it up. They screw this up with PR samples and show cars, which are sometimes prepared by hand and finished up by hand just for the press or just for show. Then things get forgotten to record. Tesla had so such problems. Volkswagen had such problems and had to recall a 5 figure number, just because of this. Because PR and show cars are normally discarded after the show, after the press had it, but sometimes they get into the second hand market.
- SmellyGeekBoy 7y agoThis is true for all manufacturers. I've owned "changeover year" cars from various manufacturers that had parts from both the older and newer revisions, very occasionally resulting in a garage ordering the wrong part leading to a delay. This isn't a Tesla-specific issue.
- david-cako 7y agoThere was a twitter chain posted here about a year back where someone described how convoluted getting a Tesla off the factory floor is. All of the systems along the way have to be installed and flashed in a particular order to ensure nothing goes belly up.