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I'm more interested in how Samsung ever got so far down the road with a such an apparently flawed design. Samsung's engineers must have known it had big problem

I'm more interested in how Samsung ever got so far down the road with a such an apparently flawed design. Samsung's engineers must have known it had big problems. Was this a classic case of dysfunctional corporate culture meaning nobody wanted to give the bosses bad news? I'm guessing so.

xfitm3 8y ago
I am sure it’s very simple. Maybe someone had a financial incentive to push it through.
- hinkley 8y ago
  And you get what you measure.
- tooltalk 8y ago
  not sure how Samsung would profit from selling a limited early adopter edition (by reservation) of experimental product? This isn't a mass consumer product. Samsung had explained that their customers would receive different kind of support and services, which means more cost to Samsung.
  - ehnto 8y ago
    I think they were referring to management performance bonuses and things of that nature.
lemoncucumber 8y ago
Samsung has a history of shipping crappy products just for the sake of being the first to do it. Their product line has always been a sprawling mess of overly-specialized niche products. It seems like they have a strategy of throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks.
- vinay427 8y ago
  Well, thankfully they do also ship many products that are the first to do something useful, so as a normal consumer that isn't a first-adopter for most things I appreciate that they create a market for many random innovations.
- bradknowles 8y ago
  Samsung has a history of squirting out over fifty new phone models each year, hoping that a production rate in excess of 1.0 per week will be sufficient to cause at least one of those 50+ models to stick. At least, they hope it will stick for a little while, long enough for them to find the next random thing that will stick for a little while.
- kylek 8y ago
  Probably considered a win as long as it isn't banned from airplanes. (re: exploding S7 batteries)
  - muxator 8y ago
    s7 -> Note 7
- cageface 8y ago
  True but they also occasionally put out really nice products. The S10e is a great phone, for example. In many ways it shows an attention to detail that used to be the province of a famous fruit branded company. Their approach to product design seems pretty chaotic but that doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong.
  - michelb 8y ago
    It depends on the market segment maybe? I like my (older) Samsung TV and love my Samsung fridge. But those are not exactly contested markets that heavily impact stock performance.
- sgift 8y ago
  Not every company can be a copycat that throws polish on things and shitloads of marketing. Some have to do the hard work first.
learnstats2 8y ago
If the primary issue is "don't remove the protective screen" then I think that might be easy to overlook - to assume that educating the user will take the problem away, for example.
- siidooloo 8y ago
  But that isn’t the only problem. The part of the screen behind the hinge is exposed. It’s easy for junk to get between the screen and hinge. Then, when opening and closing the dirt presses against the screen and damages it. Once damaged the screen seems to quickly fail.
  - justinclift 8y ago
    Wonder if some hot glue on the gaps of the screen behind the hinge would solve the initial problem? eg stop dirt getting in
jplayer01 8y ago
It feels like they didn't do any real-world testing at all, but I'm not sure that's even possible.
rorykoehler 8y ago
Huawei stole their ip and put it in the mate x. Samsung panicked and pushed out a prototype to catch the hype wave
lmilcin 8y ago
I have worked for Samsung, elbeit in software division. Company culture is such that if a high level manager promised to deliver he will pressure his people to meet the deadline no matter if the product has flaws. And every step of the organisation will do the same. There is also little flow of bad information up the chain, every level will use multiple tactics to make impression everything is fine even if the building is on fire. This has a lot to do with korean culture where keeping face and loyalty for his employer are two most important things in the life of a corporate drone.
- krzat 8y ago
  It's interesting that such company culture can achieve pretty amazing things, yet fail at very simple and obvious stuff. This reminds me of a cool analogy: big companies behave like artifical general intelligence, very smart, but very unlike human intelligence.
  - jacobush 8y ago
    And this, I think is how AI already has, and will gain, traction. Already lots of decision making in large companies is made with the aid of software tools.
    - richardhod 8y ago
      when you say 'gain traction', can you clarify this a little?
      - whatshisface 8y ago
        That's a silicon valley term for "get used." They are saying that AI will get used to make corporate decisions. It comes from the startup scene where until your product is being used you're floundering on a frictionless surface.
        miemo 8y ago
JohnJamesRambo 8y ago
This is the first thing that came to my mind as well. There is no way this was tested properly if all these reviewer units are failing immediately. There hasn’t even been time for pocket lint and dust to accumulate which will make it so much worse. A proper product would have been tested in all these conditions over and over and not released at all if the failure rate was this high. Feels like management blindness on this went all the way to the top and now they will reap the PR fallout and ridicule that they should. In a proper work environment that punished stupidity like this, some management heads should roll. Engineering heads should roll too but I suspect they told management that it wouldn’t work and management said to “just make it work.” Turns out the laws of physics are hard to rewrite.
tyopiuy 8y ago
Pretty sure they just wanted to be first in history to release a folding phone. No way someone at the top didn’t know.
coldtea 8y ago
>I'm more interested in how Samsung ever got so far down the road with a such an apparently flawed design. Companies other than Apple do this all the time. That's what most "X beat Apple at innovation bringing Y to market" amount for. For all the BS lip service about "innovation" (in an industry where few do any), Jobs Apple was thoroughly evolutionary. Each subsequent iPod iteration added something small but substantial, each iPhone iteration ditto. There was no huge revolutionary steps between releases -- the product itself, and being well thought out and usable and good was the revolution. The product idea wasn't revolutionary either (there were touch smartphones before the iPhone, and mp3 players before the iPod, tables before the iPad and so on -- the key wasn't that it was the revolutionary, but it was the first finally decent all-rounder -- as opposed to the first thrown-together mis-mash that works if you have low expectations and love tinkering as a "power user"). That said, Apple has increasingly been doing the same "pre-announce/release half-though BS" themselves past 2015 or so (e.g. the butterfly keyboard, the can Mac Pro, the touch strip, the wireless charger that never materialized, the 2+ years in the making Mac Pro replacement, etc).
tooltalk 8y ago
> Was this a classic case of dysfunctional corporate culture meaning nobody wanted to give the bosses bad news? I don't think Samsung would have done something like this for a mass consumer device, take for instance their recent S10. So no. Galaxy Folds are different though. They are not 100% ready yet -- I'm pretty sure they knew about some of the shortcomings -- but this is still a major leap in mobile display technology and the Fold's release is anything, but, a typical, or 'classical' release. Based on their announcement on bold pricing, limited availability by reservation only, with different support and service model, it is fairly evident that the release is targeting those self-selected tech-savvy folks who want access to the incomplete product just to get a glimpse into the future. And, I'm surprised by the bold move that Samsung is willing to serve such niche group of customers. That being said, I've never been so excited about a mobile device since I got my first iPhone in 2008. If I had a couple of grands to spare, I would be more than happy to sign up, just to see what it's like.

xfitm3 8y ago

I am sure it’s very simple. Maybe someone had a financial incentive to push it through.

hinkley 8y ago
And you get what you measure.
tooltalk 8y ago
not sure how Samsung would profit from selling a limited early adopter edition (by reservation) of experimental product? This isn't a mass consumer product. Samsung had explained that their customers would receive different kind of support and services, which means more cost to Samsung.
- ehnto 8y ago
  I think they were referring to management performance bonuses and things of that nature.

lemoncucumber 8y ago

Samsung has a history of shipping crappy products just for the sake of being the first to do it. Their product line has always been a sprawling mess of overly-specialized niche products. It seems like they have a strategy of throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks.

vinay427 8y ago
Well, thankfully they do also ship many products that are the first to do something useful, so as a normal consumer that isn't a first-adopter for most things I appreciate that they create a market for many random innovations.
bradknowles 8y ago
Samsung has a history of squirting out over fifty new phone models each year, hoping that a production rate in excess of 1.0 per week will be sufficient to cause at least one of those 50+ models to stick. At least, they hope it will stick for a little while, long enough for them to find the next random thing that will stick for a little while.
kylek 8y ago
Probably considered a win as long as it isn't banned from airplanes. (re: exploding S7 batteries)
- muxator 8y ago
  s7 -> Note 7
cageface 8y ago
True but they also occasionally put out really nice products. The S10e is a great phone, for example. In many ways it shows an attention to detail that used to be the province of a famous fruit branded company. Their approach to product design seems pretty chaotic but that doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong.
- michelb 8y ago
  It depends on the market segment maybe? I like my (older) Samsung TV and love my Samsung fridge. But those are not exactly contested markets that heavily impact stock performance.
sgift 8y ago
Not every company can be a copycat that throws polish on things and shitloads of marketing. Some have to do the hard work first.

learnstats2 8y ago

If the primary issue is "don't remove the protective screen" then I think that might be easy to overlook - to assume that educating the user will take the problem away, for example.

siidooloo 8y ago
But that isn’t the only problem. The part of the screen behind the hinge is exposed. It’s easy for junk to get between the screen and hinge. Then, when opening and closing the dirt presses against the screen and damages it. Once damaged the screen seems to quickly fail.
- justinclift 8y ago
  Wonder if some hot glue on the gaps of the screen behind the hinge would solve the initial problem? eg stop dirt getting in

jplayer01 8y ago

It feels like they didn't do any real-world testing at all, but I'm not sure that's even possible.

rorykoehler 8y ago

Huawei stole their ip and put it in the mate x. Samsung panicked and pushed out a prototype to catch the hype wave

lmilcin 8y ago

I have worked for Samsung, elbeit in software division. Company culture is such that if a high level manager promised to deliver he will pressure his people to meet the deadline no matter if the product has flaws. And every step of the organisation will do the same. There is also little flow of bad information up the chain, every level will use multiple tactics to make impression everything is fine even if the building is on fire. This has a lot to do with korean culture where keeping face and loyalty for his employer are two most important things in the life of a corporate drone.

krzat 8y ago
It's interesting that such company culture can achieve pretty amazing things, yet fail at very simple and obvious stuff. This reminds me of a cool analogy: big companies behave like artifical general intelligence, very smart, but very unlike human intelligence.
- jacobush 8y ago
  And this, I think is how AI already has, and will gain, traction. Already lots of decision making in large companies is made with the aid of software tools.
  - richardhod 8y ago
    when you say 'gain traction', can you clarify this a little?
    - whatshisface 8y ago
      That's a silicon valley term for "get used." They are saying that AI will get used to make corporate decisions. It comes from the startup scene where until your product is being used you're floundering on a frictionless surface.
      - miemo 8y ago

JohnJamesRambo 8y ago

This is the first thing that came to my mind as well. There is no way this was tested properly if all these reviewer units are failing immediately. There hasn’t even been time for pocket lint and dust to accumulate which will make it so much worse. A proper product would have been tested in all these conditions over and over and not released at all if the failure rate was this high. Feels like management blindness on this went all the way to the top and now they will reap the PR fallout and ridicule that they should. In a proper work environment that punished stupidity like this, some management heads should roll. Engineering heads should roll too but I suspect they told management that it wouldn’t work and management said to “just make it work.” Turns out the laws of physics are hard to rewrite.

tyopiuy 8y ago

Pretty sure they just wanted to be first in history to release a folding phone. No way someone at the top didn’t know.

coldtea 8y ago

>I'm more interested in how Samsung ever got so far down the road with a such an apparently flawed design. Companies other than Apple do this all the time. That's what most "X beat Apple at innovation bringing Y to market" amount for. For all the BS lip service about "innovation" (in an industry where few do any), Jobs Apple was thoroughly evolutionary. Each subsequent iPod iteration added something small but substantial, each iPhone iteration ditto. There was no huge revolutionary steps between releases -- the product itself, and being well thought out and usable and good was the revolution. The product idea wasn't revolutionary either (there were touch smartphones before the iPhone, and mp3 players before the iPod, tables before the iPad and so on -- the key wasn't that it was the revolutionary, but it was the first finally decent all-rounder -- as opposed to the first thrown-together mis-mash that works if you have low expectations and love tinkering as a "power user"). That said, Apple has increasingly been doing the same "pre-announce/release half-though BS" themselves past 2015 or so (e.g. the butterfly keyboard, the can Mac Pro, the touch strip, the wireless charger that never materialized, the 2+ years in the making Mac Pro replacement, etc).

tooltalk 8y ago

> Was this a classic case of dysfunctional corporate culture meaning nobody wanted to give the bosses bad news? I don't think Samsung would have done something like this for a mass consumer device, take for instance their recent S10. So no. Galaxy Folds are different though. They are not 100% ready yet -- I'm pretty sure they knew about some of the shortcomings -- but this is still a major leap in mobile display technology and the Fold's release is anything, but, a typical, or 'classical' release. Based on their announcement on bold pricing, limited availability by reservation only, with different support and service model, it is fairly evident that the release is targeting those self-selected tech-savvy folks who want access to the incomplete product just to get a glimpse into the future. And, I'm surprised by the bold move that Samsung is willing to serve such niche group of customers. That being said, I've never been so excited about a mobile device since I got my first iPhone in 2008. If I had a couple of grands to spare, I would be more than happy to sign up, just to see what it's like.