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Having employer-provided health insurance in the United States does not mean it does not cost the employee as well. Many companies require the employee pay par

Having employer-provided health insurance in the United States does not mean it does not cost the employee as well. Many companies require the employee pay part of the premiums, especially for families, and there are many, many out-of-pocket costs that people must pay even when they have insurance. In the US, there were about 1.4 million bankruptcies every year before Obamacare. There are around 700,000 per year now. But the majority of those are still widely considered to be related to medical costs (though exact statistics don't exist). That should give an idea of the burden most Americans face in terms of healthcare costs. More anecdotally, my own costs this year - as a single adult having employer-provided health insurance - is already about $800 out-of-pocket for a few office visits and tests.

dmix 8y ago
How much does a standard office visit cost? How long do you get? In Canada it's in 15min increments, you have to say beforehand if you need 30min or longer, because they break up the whole day in 15min chunks and bill each the same. Almost every time they are rushing you, so they can hammer out a ton of 5min appointments and bill them all for 15min. Which is kind of annoying.
dogma1138 8y ago
$800 is less than the 15-25% health tax you’ll pay in Europe.
- majewsky 8y ago
  You forgot to factor in that he's also paying indirectly for employer-provided health insurance. How much is that in comparison?
  - dogma1138 8y ago
    Same goes for Europe, my national insurance contribution(which doesn't even technically cover healthcare) is £6,664 a year, my employer pays an additional £17,281.19 in NICS a year. Do you think that you and your employer pay more than $30K a year for healthcare? Don't get me wrong there are a lot of things wrong with US healthcare including the costs for uninsured but Europeans pay through the nose direct and indirectly for their health insurance as well. With marginal tax of nearly of over 50% of your income when you include NI/Health Tax contributions, 20-25% VAT and much higher indirect taxes on everything from fuel to sugar you end up paying for it one way or another.
    - majewsky 8y ago
      > Do you think that you and your employer pay more than $30K a year for healthcare? If I add the costs for my grandmother, then that sounds very likely. The important thing about universal healthcare is that workers pay for those who cannot pay themselves, so it's to be expected that a 30yo developer would pay way more than he gets back out. It's only fair, I'm gonna be old someday and I definitely want my health insurance to cover my expenses when I cannot pay premiums anymore.
      - dogma1138 8y ago
        Universal healthcare doesn’t have anything to do with progressive taxation. Half of the EU doesn’t have single payer and use a public private mix, many of them allow you to not pay for the public system at all above a certain gross pay. All health insurance schemes are based on the fact that young and healthy individuals pay more than they get, it has nothing to do with universal healthcare or a single payer system.
- standardUser 8y ago
  That is the entire point. Europeans have less disposable income because of higher taxes, and Americans have more disposable income but have to spend it on things paid for in Europe by taxes. Education fits this pattern too.

dmix 8y ago

How much does a standard office visit cost? How long do you get? In Canada it's in 15min increments, you have to say beforehand if you need 30min or longer, because they break up the whole day in 15min chunks and bill each the same. Almost every time they are rushing you, so they can hammer out a ton of 5min appointments and bill them all for 15min. Which is kind of annoying.

dogma1138 8y ago

$800 is less than the 15-25% health tax you’ll pay in Europe.

majewsky 8y ago
You forgot to factor in that he's also paying indirectly for employer-provided health insurance. How much is that in comparison?
- dogma1138 8y ago
  Same goes for Europe, my national insurance contribution(which doesn't even technically cover healthcare) is £6,664 a year, my employer pays an additional £17,281.19 in NICS a year. Do you think that you and your employer pay more than $30K a year for healthcare? Don't get me wrong there are a lot of things wrong with US healthcare including the costs for uninsured but Europeans pay through the nose direct and indirectly for their health insurance as well. With marginal tax of nearly of over 50% of your income when you include NI/Health Tax contributions, 20-25% VAT and much higher indirect taxes on everything from fuel to sugar you end up paying for it one way or another.
  - majewsky 8y ago
    > Do you think that you and your employer pay more than $30K a year for healthcare? If I add the costs for my grandmother, then that sounds very likely. The important thing about universal healthcare is that workers pay for those who cannot pay themselves, so it's to be expected that a 30yo developer would pay way more than he gets back out. It's only fair, I'm gonna be old someday and I definitely want my health insurance to cover my expenses when I cannot pay premiums anymore.
    - dogma1138 8y ago
      Universal healthcare doesn’t have anything to do with progressive taxation. Half of the EU doesn’t have single payer and use a public private mix, many of them allow you to not pay for the public system at all above a certain gross pay. All health insurance schemes are based on the fact that young and healthy individuals pay more than they get, it has nothing to do with universal healthcare or a single payer system.
standardUser 8y ago
That is the entire point. Europeans have less disposable income because of higher taxes, and Americans have more disposable income but have to spend it on things paid for in Europe by taxes. Education fits this pattern too.