8 ms·

Genuine Question: Apart from maybe the money or a nice resume entry, why would you/do you want to?

by awiesenhofer 8y ago

joegahona 8y ago
Those are not insignificant reasons.
seansmccullough 8y ago
Both of those are pretty substantial.
ebg13 8y ago
> Apart from maybe the money or a nice resume entry Return question: Do you have a firm grasp on quite how much money it is?
- 6cd6beb 8y ago
  Unsolicited question: Does every man have his price?
  - ebg13 8y ago
    I think so, but it will be hard for us to prove.
simmanian 8y ago
I don't work at Google (and I don't agree with some of the things the company's decided to do) but have many friends who enjoy working there. From what I hear, Google has an organizational structure that is very favorable for regular engineers. Once you're hired and you put in around a year of work in a team, it's almost trivial to find another team. Engineers also directly evaluate managers and I've heard stories of mid to high level managers crying in bathrooms because of poor reviews from their reports. These factors combine to create an environment where teams are actively working to make engineers happy and content. Compared to many companies where managers make a lot of decisions in a room with no feedback given to or received from engineers, it's heck of a lot better.
- asaph 8y ago
  > I've heard stories of mid to high level managers crying in bathrooms because of poor reviews from their reports. Is this your idea of an engineering nirvana? Does engineering happiness have to come at the expense of manager happiness?
  - simmanian 8y ago
    It's not quite my idea of an engineering nirvana, no. I'm not sure where you got that impression.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- drugme 8y ago
  Compared to many companies where managers make a lot of decisions in a room with no feedback given to or received from engineers, it's heck of a lot better. A very substantial point actually.
- 6cd6beb 8y ago
  >I've heard stories of mid to high level managers crying in bathrooms because of poor reviews from their reports. These factors combine to create an environment where teams are actively working to make engineers happy and content. Honestly this sounds like a thought experiment. Do you have any ethical hangups about entering an environment where falling out of your favor can leave someone stress-crying in their place of work and/or about their livelihood. If so, how much money would it take for you to join the system anyway? How long would you stay in such a system if you found yourself already in one? Back in the real world, in a business context, it sounds like an abusive workplace and an untenable system. Like, that obviously can't last forever.
  - simmanian 8y ago
    Perhaps using the crying manager example was a bad idea on my part. What I can stand behind is having an org structure that encourages managers and execs to treat their employees well. It sounds like Google has done a better job than most. I'm sure there are managers and engineers crying in private in every big company out there. What I'm trying to say is even though a lot of people like to assume that people work for Google and stay there just for the money, Google probably does some things very well to keep all the talent despite the negative press it gets. And I think a major factor is how empowered a "regular" engineer feels in the company. It sounds like a step up from many other companies in that regard.
qmanjamz 8y ago
There's no way this is actually a genuine question. It's the same reason anybody wants a job anywhere: because they'll eventually become homeless if they don't find a job.
- khuey 8y ago
  There are many rungs on the ladder between Google and homeless.
sidlls 8y ago
The money is not quite life changing in the Bay Area but it's a significant acceleration towards retirement. I would not mind retiring in a few years, in my early 40s instead of working to 60+.
estomagordo 8y ago
Very smart co-workers and the potential to be part of building software that solves a specific problem on a scale that nobody else on Earth has attempted.
- ThrowawayR2 8y ago
  Bingo. If you actually like CS, instead of just seeing programming as a way to get a fat paycheck like so many seem to, why would you not want to be part of FAANG or some other company building cutting-edge products and work on building some of the most advanced systems in the world?
  - Fins 8y ago
    Some people may not enjoy the "making the world an objectively worse place" part. Not everyone is moved only by a fat paycheck and working on interesting problems. Otherwise we might as well assume it is perfectly fine to work on a poison gas that only works on ethnicity X -- after all the pay might be pretty good, and it's a cutting-edge, advanced biochemical problem. Obviously not saying FAANGs are quite that bad, but still, this is a pretty shallow reason to work somewhere.
- Fins 8y ago
  Smart (in the usual understanding of smart), or good programmers (in the "can invert a binary tree on a whiteboard" sense)? These are two measures that are basically orthogonal.
  - estomagordo 8y ago
    As in very intelligent.
    - Fins 8y ago
      Is there any evidence of that? Google selects people based on entirely different criteria, and promotes them for moving a button in Gmail from an inconvenient location to an even less convenient one.

Genuine Question: Apart from maybe the money or a nice resume entry, why would you/do you want to?

joegahona 8y ago

Those are not insignificant reasons.

seansmccullough 8y ago

Both of those are pretty substantial.

ebg13 8y ago

> Apart from maybe the money or a nice resume entry Return question: Do you have a firm grasp on quite how much money it is?

6cd6beb 8y ago
Unsolicited question: Does every man have his price?
- ebg13 8y ago
  I think so, but it will be hard for us to prove.

simmanian 8y ago

I don't work at Google (and I don't agree with some of the things the company's decided to do) but have many friends who enjoy working there. From what I hear, Google has an organizational structure that is very favorable for regular engineers. Once you're hired and you put in around a year of work in a team, it's almost trivial to find another team. Engineers also directly evaluate managers and I've heard stories of mid to high level managers crying in bathrooms because of poor reviews from their reports. These factors combine to create an environment where teams are actively working to make engineers happy and content. Compared to many companies where managers make a lot of decisions in a room with no feedback given to or received from engineers, it's heck of a lot better.

asaph 8y ago
> I've heard stories of mid to high level managers crying in bathrooms because of poor reviews from their reports. Is this your idea of an engineering nirvana? Does engineering happiness have to come at the expense of manager happiness?
- simmanian 8y ago
  It's not quite my idea of an engineering nirvana, no. I'm not sure where you got that impression.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
drugme 8y ago
Compared to many companies where managers make a lot of decisions in a room with no feedback given to or received from engineers, it's heck of a lot better. A very substantial point actually.
6cd6beb 8y ago
>I've heard stories of mid to high level managers crying in bathrooms because of poor reviews from their reports. These factors combine to create an environment where teams are actively working to make engineers happy and content. Honestly this sounds like a thought experiment. Do you have any ethical hangups about entering an environment where falling out of your favor can leave someone stress-crying in their place of work and/or about their livelihood. If so, how much money would it take for you to join the system anyway? How long would you stay in such a system if you found yourself already in one? Back in the real world, in a business context, it sounds like an abusive workplace and an untenable system. Like, that obviously can't last forever.
- simmanian 8y ago
  Perhaps using the crying manager example was a bad idea on my part. What I can stand behind is having an org structure that encourages managers and execs to treat their employees well. It sounds like Google has done a better job than most. I'm sure there are managers and engineers crying in private in every big company out there. What I'm trying to say is even though a lot of people like to assume that people work for Google and stay there just for the money, Google probably does some things very well to keep all the talent despite the negative press it gets. And I think a major factor is how empowered a "regular" engineer feels in the company. It sounds like a step up from many other companies in that regard.

qmanjamz 8y ago

There's no way this is actually a genuine question. It's the same reason anybody wants a job anywhere: because they'll eventually become homeless if they don't find a job.

khuey 8y ago
There are many rungs on the ladder between Google and homeless.

sidlls 8y ago

The money is not quite life changing in the Bay Area but it's a significant acceleration towards retirement. I would not mind retiring in a few years, in my early 40s instead of working to 60+.

estomagordo 8y ago

Very smart co-workers and the potential to be part of building software that solves a specific problem on a scale that nobody else on Earth has attempted.

ThrowawayR2 8y ago
Bingo. If you actually like CS, instead of just seeing programming as a way to get a fat paycheck like so many seem to, why would you not want to be part of FAANG or some other company building cutting-edge products and work on building some of the most advanced systems in the world?
- Fins 8y ago
  Some people may not enjoy the "making the world an objectively worse place" part. Not everyone is moved only by a fat paycheck and working on interesting problems. Otherwise we might as well assume it is perfectly fine to work on a poison gas that only works on ethnicity X -- after all the pay might be pretty good, and it's a cutting-edge, advanced biochemical problem. Obviously not saying FAANGs are quite that bad, but still, this is a pretty shallow reason to work somewhere.
Fins 8y ago
Smart (in the usual understanding of smart), or good programmers (in the "can invert a binary tree on a whiteboard" sense)? These are two measures that are basically orthogonal.
- estomagordo 8y ago
  As in very intelligent.
  - Fins 8y ago
    Is there any evidence of that? Google selects people based on entirely different criteria, and promotes them for moving a button in Gmail from an inconvenient location to an even less convenient one.