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Elon Musk Claims on Tesla Chips Don't Match the Reality
- jgalt212 8y agoas t increases, the delta between Musk and Holmes is decreasing.
- exelius 8y agoLike Steve Jobs, he’s become a victim of his own reality distortion field. But he doesn’t have the charisma of Steve Jobs, so he just comes off as an inauthentic creep.
- tuesdayrain 8y agoI see nothing creepy about him.
- threeseed 8y agoI definitely wouldn't say creepy. But with the rumours around his drug use and partying, documented issues with Ambien, erratic tweeting behaviour, calling people pedophiles etc. He isn't exactly the straightest CEO around.
- bjl 8y agoNot even randomly accusing innocent people of pedophilia?
- exelius 8y agoEye of the beholder and all, but he definitely creeps me out.
- as300 8y agoasymptotically, I'd argue
- schwap 8y agoYeah, unlike Theranos, Tesla actually produced what they initially said they would.
- jkravitz61 8y agoHolmes never delivered a product that worked. Musk has delivered 4 Tesla models and counting, as well as VTOL rockets among many other accomplishments. Sure, he over-promises and under-delivers (or at least misses his timelines), but I wouldn't compare that to Holmes level fraud by any stretch.
- nordsieck 8y ago> as t increases, the delta between Musk and Holmes is decreasing. Not at all. Musk says wacky stuff on Twitter and has real trouble with public speaking. He is objectively not charismatic at all. Holmes was super polished and had everything locked down. Musk is able to attract and retain top talent, and push them to accomplish a lot. Holmes could attract politically powerful people with her charisma, but she ended up pushing competent technical staff away.
- notimetorelax 8y agoI don't see much substance in the article. E.g. Nvidia argues that they have chips to meet Tesla's specs, I don't know what constraints Tesla had, but they did mention one - power consumption: Drive PX Xavier - 30 TOPS - 30 Watts - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia_Drive#Drive_PX_Xavier https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia_Drive#Drive_PX_Xavier DRIVE AGX Pegasus - 320 TOPS - 500 Watts - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia_Drive#Drive_PX_Pegasus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia_Drive#Drive_PX_Pegasus Both chips if scaled to 144 TOPS consume double the power of Tesla's solution.
- cptskippy 8y agoI just scrubbed through the presentation quickly today and happened to stop on a reporter's question about why they built their own chip and at what cost. Musk said basically there were more powerful chips and less powerful chips available but this one was with in their power requirements and had exactly the power they needed at a cost less than what they were paying including R&D costs. I can understand that rationale, it's like making custom fit patch cables for your network rack that are exactly the length they need to be.
- kingosticks 8y agoExcept if you screw up and cut the cable too short it's going to really hurt your finances, and maybe more importantly, your time to market. There's quite a lot of risk involved but I guess a big enough budget can help mitigate some of that.
- cptskippy 8y agoNot to mention getting the right people cutting your cables.
- torpfactory 8y agoThey did hire Jim Keller to design their chips so... using your analogy they definitely hired the right guy to cut the cables :). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Keller_(engineer) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Keller_(engineer)
- BluSyn 8y agoBloomberg is spinning nvidia's own blog post. Read the source: https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2019/04/23/tesla-self-driving/ https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2019/04/23/tesla-self-driving/ Then read the Bloomberg article again, and tell me how that isn't complete spin towards a narrative that doesn't exist in the source. Bloomberg is completely shameless in their anti-anything-Tesla narrative.
- danso 8y agoThe blog post literally calls out Musk for inaccuracies: > But while we agree with him on the big picture—that this is a challenge that can only be tackled with supercomputer-class systems—there are a few inaccuracies in Tesla’s Autonomy Day presentation that we need to correct. Ask yourself why nVidia would feel the need to put out anything given that they and Tesla are no longer collaborators. Do you believe they’d put out a “Cool claims by Tesla” press release if they didn’t feel the need to point out corrections?
- forgottenpass 8y ago>Ask yourself why nVidia would feel the need to put out anything given that they and Tesla are no longer collaborators. nVidia must be short-selling Tesla stock. If Hacker News has taught me anything, it's that we can rest assured about our TSLA investments because the only reason anyone ever says something negative about - or disagrees with - Musk or Tesla is that they're short sellers and we've just gotta ride it out.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- whamlastxmas 8y agoWon't stop everyone from piling on as always
- sweden 8y agoSensationalist headline, the entire article based on the statements from Nvidia on this blog post: - https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2019/04/23/tesla-self-driving/ https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2019/04/23/tesla-self-driving/ I'm not defending Tesla's statements on the comparison between Tesla's hardware and Nvidia's hardware, but it feels that the author of the article took an advantage of Nvidia's post to dismiss Tesla's progress on this area.
- zaroth 8y ago“The new 14nm based self-developed chip is fabbed by Samsung and is capable of 144 tera operations per second (TOPS) (two chips each 72 TOPS) compared with Nvidia’s Drive Xavier’s theoretical performance of 21 TOPS. It features two fully independent packages, each with their own with DRAM memory, flash storage chips, and power supplies. If one fails, the failsafe is the second one.” [1] So the correct way to look at this is that Tesla has a redundant 72 TOPS chip compared to nVidia Xavier 21 or 30 TOPS. It’s nonsensical to compare a stack of chips versus another. NVidia claiming the fair comparison is a 320 TOPS system with 2 Xavier’s and 2 TensorCores pulling 500 watts total. A single Xavier provides 30 TOPS of Int8 at 30 watts. The redundant Tesla setup by comparison pulls 100 watts total. [2] A fact check that just parrots Nvidia’s blog with no actual research or fair presentation of the numbers may be par for the course but not terribly useful. [1] - https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/tesla-develops-own-self-driving-ai-chip-removes-nvidia.html https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/tesla-develops-own-self-dr... [2] - https://electrek.co/2019/04/23/nvidia-disputes-tesla-fsd-computer/ https://electrek.co/2019/04/23/nvidia-disputes-tesla-fsd-com...
- cptskippy 8y ago> The redundant Tesla setup by comparison pulls 100 watts total. [2] Hmm... I recalled him saying 72w in the presentation compared to 54w in the previous hardware. Then he said this was within the allotted power envelope and wouldn't impact range.
- zaroth 8y agoI didn’t watch the whole livestream, but it could be one talking about just the specific chips versus the other the whole system?
- cptskippy 8y agoYes, and they said the whole system was spec'd at under 200w in the Model 3. I went back and it was around the 1hr 30min mark when they had the chip designer on stage answering questions.
- breatheoften 8y agoIt’s a chip for doing exactly the convolutions they want to do a whole lot of ... Nvidia gpus present a very different and more flexible programming model — why is it not the expected case that Tesla’s hardware would have the price and wattage advantage for the problem they intend to throw at it ...?
- kingosticks 8y agoDo they have the scale to achieve any sort of price advantage? 14nm NRE costs are huge.
- monocasa 8y agoThey're in the right ball park to see wins.
- zaroth 8y agoSamsung fabs it. Do you mean chip design and tape out NRE? Tesla spent several years designing their current chip, finishing about 1.5 years ago. They hired a industry guru to help them do it, I’m sure the financial investment was massive. Elon stated somewhat wryly “their entire expense sheet is FSD” which is to say their R&D spending in FSD dwarfs their other R&D spending. They are also already working on a Gen2 of their just released chip for the last year plus. For Tesla the hardware design is essential to achieving their goal. If they get FSD in the real world before everyone else, they can print money with the Tesla Network. And they simply can’t get there first using general purpose off the shelf hardware. It’s a core part of the competitive advantage of the Tesla fleet. The fact that you can slot this new hardware into any AP2.5+ car shipped in the last couple years is an amazing perk of owning a Tesla. No other carmaker comes close to offering this kind of long-term support with software and hardware updates to a late-model-year car.
- madengr 8y agoI assume it will be a free upgrade to those who paid for the self-driving hardware?
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- klaudius 8y agoElon Musk is an obvious fraud: https://weev.livejournal.com/414065.html
- mandeepj 8y agoGoing to use Elon’s own words here, which I find pretty funny - “But, you are driving that fraud :-)”
- debatem1 8y agoI'd love to see a real comparison of the two technologies under the Tesla workload, both for what it would say about the chips and what it would say about the workload. Having said that, an investor call isn't going to be that and Elon isn't the person to give it, so I'm not sure what Bloomberg (or Nvidia) wanted here. "CEO likes own technology" isn't exactly news.
- zamalek 8y agoThis piece is pretty ludicrous, right off the bat: > [Video] How can a company that has never designed a chip, design the best chip in the world? They hire one of the best chip design teams in the world. Musk said this no fewer than two times during the presentation.
- bdamm 8y agoRight, much of the actual hard work in chip design would be outsourced. They pull in enormous amounts of templated chip design ("IP"), and clearly hired top talent to keep the whole thing going. They'd need simulators and labs for testing, but maybe outsource PCB layout. And I believe Elon even stated out loud that the fab itself is in Texas. Nobody makes chips on their own except perhaps Intel or Samsung. Even with all that industry support it's still a remarkable piece of work in a tight time line, but given the funding and the people, entirely reasonable.
- chmaynard 8y agoThere are two public figures who lie almost every time they move their lips: Donald Trump and Elon Musk.
- s_y_n_t_a_x 8y agoYou believe that because that's what the media feeds you.
- chmaynard 8y agoThe difference is that Trump knows when he is lying but doesn't care, whereas Musk actually thinks he is telling the truth. Musk's pathology is more serious, which is why he probably will never get elected to public office.
- manicdee 8y agoApples to oranges comparison. Of course nVidia are going to claim their GPU processes stuff faster, and ignore the part where you have to get the results of the calculations off the GPU.
- aiyodev 8y agoWhere is that committee of independent directors that the SEC required to control Elon Musk's communications? Is Tesla just ignoring the settlement?