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> incompatible with the proprietary Nvidia drivers (and no plan to ever fix that) I've heard that Nvidia is fixing this in KDE Plasma and maybe Gnome too. (Fuc

> incompatible with the proprietary Nvidia drivers (and no plan to ever fix that) I've heard that Nvidia is fixing this in KDE Plasma and maybe Gnome too. (Fuck proprietary drivers though, and fuck Nvidia.) > huge input lag that's odd. Gnome's compositor is not the fastest, but it generally works okay for many many people. > the reasons one should consider a switch nowadays - No screen tearing ever, every frame is perfect - Real HiDPI support, different scales on different monitors, many compositors support "Apple-style" fractional scaling (render at ceil(scale) and downscale on GPU) - Proper touchscreen support, without dragging the mouse pointer along - Touchpad gesture support (this miiiight have been bolted onto X with XInput2 as well)

jimbo1qaz 7y ago
"Apple-style" fractional scaling makes horizontal and vertical lines and hinted (vertically grid-fitted) text blurry.
ComputerGuru 7y ago
> (Fuck proprietary drivers though, and fuck Nvidia.) I love nVidia's drivers. They "just work" and I don't need to muck about trying to understand why this version of this video driver doesn't play right with that version of drm or this kms setting. Don't get me wrong, there are benefits to being a proper, native component of a modular display system. But what's the point if none of them work, only support random subsets of the hardware, and crash left and right?
- sevensor 7y ago
  > none of them work, only support random subsets of the hardware, and crash left and right Anecdote for anecdote, you just described my experience with NVidia's dreadful hardware / drivers.
- reirob 7y ago
  Good for you. I have the worst Linux experience in 20 years, because I was tempted to buy a high-end laptop that happened to have a nVidia graphics card (ThinkPad X1E). Never ever will I touch hardware with nVidia. Certainly, I might not be the target audience for this - I don't play games and work mostly in a terminal and browser. Once I managed to make it work, and that I am now able to select between the NVidia and Intel - I have to tell, that I do not see any difference, in performance. However the performance is below what I was used on the previous computers - it might be due to the high resolution (3840x2160). Connecting external monitors is a nightmare. It produces a lot of heat. And it made me lose so much time! In this case I do not even care about proprietary or open source drivers - I just want it to work. I never had a more sluggish linux system since 1995. Even typing in the browser or in the terminal makes me make mistakes, so much lag is there.
keldaris 7y ago
> Fuck proprietary drivers though, and fuck Nvidia. I'd normally agree, but it's far easier for me to pick and choose software than hardware, and Nvidia makes the best GPUs by a huge margin (particularly if you care about power efficiency). Not to mention the issue of CUDA, which HPC and ML applications rely on pretty much exclusively and for which there's no support in open source drivers AFAIK. As for the reasons to switch, I acknowledge your list as objective advantages. Unfortunately, I happen to be among the people who don't care for high DPI (1440p is more than enough for me), touchscreens (leave those to phones) or touchpads (TrackPoint forever), so I guess I'll be sticking to X11 for the foreseeable future. A guarantee against screen tearing is nice, but I've rarely seen it on the setups I run (admittedly, mostly on high end hardware), whereas low input lag, stability and driver support are things I am loathe to forgo.
yjftsjthsd-h 7y ago
> I've heard that Nvidia is fixing this in KDE Plasma and maybe Gnome too I'm sorry, are you saying that drivers now match specific DEs? That's a sufficiently hideous layering violation to make me automatically dislike Wayland, iff true.
- Crespyl 7y ago
  That specific problem is related to NVidias refusal to support the open API components that every other player is standardizing around. The reason it's becoming possible to run Wayland compositors on NVidia hardware just now is because the Gnome (and now KDE) teams have just given up and started implementing the NVidia-specific pieces. It's not really a Wayland problem, it's an NVidia problem. You can run any Wayland compositor on AMD hardware without this issue.

jimbo1qaz 7y ago

"Apple-style" fractional scaling makes horizontal and vertical lines and hinted (vertically grid-fitted) text blurry.

ComputerGuru 7y ago

> (Fuck proprietary drivers though, and fuck Nvidia.) I love nVidia's drivers. They "just work" and I don't need to muck about trying to understand why this version of this video driver doesn't play right with that version of drm or this kms setting. Don't get me wrong, there are benefits to being a proper, native component of a modular display system. But what's the point if none of them work, only support random subsets of the hardware, and crash left and right?

sevensor 7y ago
> none of them work, only support random subsets of the hardware, and crash left and right Anecdote for anecdote, you just described my experience with NVidia's dreadful hardware / drivers.
reirob 7y ago
Good for you. I have the worst Linux experience in 20 years, because I was tempted to buy a high-end laptop that happened to have a nVidia graphics card (ThinkPad X1E). Never ever will I touch hardware with nVidia. Certainly, I might not be the target audience for this - I don't play games and work mostly in a terminal and browser. Once I managed to make it work, and that I am now able to select between the NVidia and Intel - I have to tell, that I do not see any difference, in performance. However the performance is below what I was used on the previous computers - it might be due to the high resolution (3840x2160). Connecting external monitors is a nightmare. It produces a lot of heat. And it made me lose so much time! In this case I do not even care about proprietary or open source drivers - I just want it to work. I never had a more sluggish linux system since 1995. Even typing in the browser or in the terminal makes me make mistakes, so much lag is there.

keldaris 7y ago

> Fuck proprietary drivers though, and fuck Nvidia. I'd normally agree, but it's far easier for me to pick and choose software than hardware, and Nvidia makes the best GPUs by a huge margin (particularly if you care about power efficiency). Not to mention the issue of CUDA, which HPC and ML applications rely on pretty much exclusively and for which there's no support in open source drivers AFAIK. As for the reasons to switch, I acknowledge your list as objective advantages. Unfortunately, I happen to be among the people who don't care for high DPI (1440p is more than enough for me), touchscreens (leave those to phones) or touchpads (TrackPoint forever), so I guess I'll be sticking to X11 for the foreseeable future. A guarantee against screen tearing is nice, but I've rarely seen it on the setups I run (admittedly, mostly on high end hardware), whereas low input lag, stability and driver support are things I am loathe to forgo.

yjftsjthsd-h 7y ago

> I've heard that Nvidia is fixing this in KDE Plasma and maybe Gnome too I'm sorry, are you saying that drivers now match specific DEs? That's a sufficiently hideous layering violation to make me automatically dislike Wayland, iff true.

Crespyl 7y ago
That specific problem is related to NVidias refusal to support the open API components that every other player is standardizing around. The reason it's becoming possible to run Wayland compositors on NVidia hardware just now is because the Gnome (and now KDE) teams have just given up and started implementing the NVidia-specific pieces. It's not really a Wayland problem, it's an NVidia problem. You can run any Wayland compositor on AMD hardware without this issue.