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You can use pretty much any popular editor, such as Atom, VS Code, IntelliJ, and even VIM, for Clojure development nowadays. I personally use IntelliJ and I've

You can use pretty much any popular editor, such as Atom, VS Code, IntelliJ, and even VIM, for Clojure development nowadays. I personally use IntelliJ and I've never touched Emacs for any serious projects. I'm also not sure what the problem with Leiningen is, it's a hell of a lot better than most build tools I've used. If you want to see brittle, you should take a look at NPM clusterfuck. Yet, people happily use that mess all the time. Poor start up time is typically not an issue for web applications, which is the primary domain Clojure is used in. Meanwhile, at dev time you're using the REPL, so you're not restarting your app all the time. I often have an instance of the app running for weeks on end as I work on it. For environments where start up time matters we now have ClojureScript on Node and GraalVM. The error messages are indeed a huge improvement in Clojure 1.10.

Riverheart 8y ago
Any tips for Lisp writing/editing in a non-emacs editor?
- yogthos 8y ago
  My recommendation would be to either try Calva [1] with VS Code, or Cursive [2] with IntelliJ. [1] https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=cospaia.clojure4vscode https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=cospaia.... [2] https://cursive-ide.com/ https://cursive-ide.com/
  - Riverheart 8y ago
    Thanks!
- ilikehurdles 8y ago
  I recommend cursive to start. Use the trial version for a month and see how it feels. It’ll spoil you though with how little setup is needed aside from choosing between parinfer and paredit for structural editing (I prefer the former).
billfruit 8y ago
Leiningen on Windows seemed like an after thought. Even on Linux I have run into package management issues with lein1/lein2. I should say a build tool should largely be stable, not changing it behavior. On many functions like how you use local jars the features and methods have changed drastically at various points of time in Clojure/lein. This kind of churn has even effects like invalidating much documentation already written, and many stack overflow answers too. Why should an application developer be distracted by issues like these? Most importantly if Clojure development is essentially depending upon lein, then I feel it should be distributed with Clojure itself. And emacs, cider, nrepl and lein chain has so many parts which are getting version upgrades independently, it breaks frequently for the user, functionality that was working suddenly stop working after an upgrade and you have to debug why it stopped working. Also I wonder how complicated it might be to set up the whole chain on a Windows machine.
- yogthos 8y ago
  I can't speak to these problem as I haven't used Windows in years myself. I imagine majority of the community uses Linux and MacOS hence why Windows has been an afterthought. This isn't unique to Clojure by any means either, a lot of dev tools are difficult or impossible to use on Windows from what I've seen. Clojure now has dependency management built in with deps.tools that ships with it. It's simpler and less opinionated than lein. So, perhaps that will address the problem with getting started on Windows.
- Zekio 8y ago
  The Windows experience with leiningen can be pretty good when kept up to date, which can be done easily using https://scoop.sh/ https://scoop.sh/ to install it and update it once in a while

Riverheart 8y ago

Any tips for Lisp writing/editing in a non-emacs editor?

yogthos 8y ago
My recommendation would be to either try Calva [1] with VS Code, or Cursive [2] with IntelliJ. [1] https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=cospaia.clojure4vscode https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=cospaia.... [2] https://cursive-ide.com/ https://cursive-ide.com/
- Riverheart 8y ago
  Thanks!
ilikehurdles 8y ago
I recommend cursive to start. Use the trial version for a month and see how it feels. It’ll spoil you though with how little setup is needed aside from choosing between parinfer and paredit for structural editing (I prefer the former).

billfruit 8y ago

Leiningen on Windows seemed like an after thought. Even on Linux I have run into package management issues with lein1/lein2. I should say a build tool should largely be stable, not changing it behavior. On many functions like how you use local jars the features and methods have changed drastically at various points of time in Clojure/lein. This kind of churn has even effects like invalidating much documentation already written, and many stack overflow answers too. Why should an application developer be distracted by issues like these? Most importantly if Clojure development is essentially depending upon lein, then I feel it should be distributed with Clojure itself. And emacs, cider, nrepl and lein chain has so many parts which are getting version upgrades independently, it breaks frequently for the user, functionality that was working suddenly stop working after an upgrade and you have to debug why it stopped working. Also I wonder how complicated it might be to set up the whole chain on a Windows machine.

yogthos 8y ago
I can't speak to these problem as I haven't used Windows in years myself. I imagine majority of the community uses Linux and MacOS hence why Windows has been an afterthought. This isn't unique to Clojure by any means either, a lot of dev tools are difficult or impossible to use on Windows from what I've seen. Clojure now has dependency management built in with deps.tools that ships with it. It's simpler and less opinionated than lein. So, perhaps that will address the problem with getting started on Windows.
Zekio 8y ago
The Windows experience with leiningen can be pretty good when kept up to date, which can be done easily using https://scoop.sh/ https://scoop.sh/ to install it and update it once in a while