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> As for the systems associated with it, I think it's an oversimplification to say they do not work. As I mentioned, there is a not-insignificant number of peop

> As for the systems associated with it, I think it's an oversimplification to say they do not work. As I mentioned, there is a not-insignificant number of people out there who long for a return to life under Soviet control (just from people I've met in my travels). To them, it worked. It wasn't perfect, but I didn't say that and nothing is. To a great degree, history is written by the victors, anyway. Ever read Solzhenitsyn?

Frondo 7y ago
Has your life brought you in contact with any significant number of people who grew up in the Soviet system? Or are you insinuating something only by what you've read in books? Strangest distinct memory I have of hanging with people in a post-Soviet state: partying all night long, passing out some time around 3, waking up at 5 to hearing them all singing the Soviet anthem -- not the Russian anthem, though the melody's the same -- and then talking in hushed tones the next day with some of them about life being better before the fall. And that's just one of many conversations I've had with people about this stuff. shrug
- showmedeadargh 7y ago
  So what exactly are you claiming here? That, because you met some people who claim to prefer Soviet rule, that Soviet rule was better for everyone? That, because you met some people who claim to prefer Soviet rule, that no one suffered under Soviet oppression? That, because you met some people who claim to prefer Soviet rule, that the suffering of some under Soviet oppression was acceptable? That, because you met some people who claim to prefer Soviet rule, [insert claim here]? Additionally, are you claiming that Solzhenitsyn's claims are false? Are you dismissing his lengthy work based on some anecdotes from hung-over all-night party-goers? Are you being serious at all?
- Frondo 7y ago
  I can't rebut the comment that replied to me here, because it's dead. But it raised a few points I do want to address. Yes, people were oppressed under the Soviet system. American capitalism is oppressive to many, too. Ask a prisoner who can now only access books on an "allowed books" list. No, soviet life wasn't better for everyone; American capitalism isn't better for everyone. Ask the millions who can't access health care and die prematurely for it. Saying that "some suffered under soviet rule, therefore it is unacceptable" sets a bar of "nobody should suffer" that is unreasonably high; it is also a bar that American capitalism very distinctly fails to clear. Suffering is great in the US. Ask the homeless, ask the struggling. There's no American freedom for them, it's an empty slogan. There's only suffering for them. My point that some prefer soviet rule is to rebut the generalization that it did not work. It didn't for many. It did for many others. American capitalism does not work for many; hence the extremism in political life. People want a change. My point is that it's an oversimplification to say ours is good, theirs was bad, when the history and reality is much more complicated than that.
  - showmedeadargh 7y ago
    Get that Marxist shit out of here. "People want a change." You sound like Bernie Sanders. Are YOU running for President now? I want a change: I want evil people like you to shut up and face reality. > My point is that it's an oversimplification to say ours is good, theirs was bad, when the history and reality is much more complicated than that. It's fucking simple: millions of people died in famines and gulags in the USSR. You have the gall to compare "people who can't access health care and die prematurely" to being DISAPPEARED, TORTURED, MURDERED, AND STARVED, INTENTIONALLY, BY A GOVERNMENT THAT CLAIMED TO BE FOR THEM. You're a filthy, rotten, leftist liar--forgive my redundancy.

Frondo 7y ago

Has your life brought you in contact with any significant number of people who grew up in the Soviet system? Or are you insinuating something only by what you've read in books? Strangest distinct memory I have of hanging with people in a post-Soviet state: partying all night long, passing out some time around 3, waking up at 5 to hearing them all singing the Soviet anthem -- not the Russian anthem, though the melody's the same -- and then talking in hushed tones the next day with some of them about life being better before the fall. And that's just one of many conversations I've had with people about this stuff. shrug

showmedeadargh 7y ago
So what exactly are you claiming here? That, because you met some people who claim to prefer Soviet rule, that Soviet rule was better for everyone? That, because you met some people who claim to prefer Soviet rule, that no one suffered under Soviet oppression? That, because you met some people who claim to prefer Soviet rule, that the suffering of some under Soviet oppression was acceptable? That, because you met some people who claim to prefer Soviet rule, [insert claim here]? Additionally, are you claiming that Solzhenitsyn's claims are false? Are you dismissing his lengthy work based on some anecdotes from hung-over all-night party-goers? Are you being serious at all?
Frondo 7y ago
I can't rebut the comment that replied to me here, because it's dead. But it raised a few points I do want to address. Yes, people were oppressed under the Soviet system. American capitalism is oppressive to many, too. Ask a prisoner who can now only access books on an "allowed books" list. No, soviet life wasn't better for everyone; American capitalism isn't better for everyone. Ask the millions who can't access health care and die prematurely for it. Saying that "some suffered under soviet rule, therefore it is unacceptable" sets a bar of "nobody should suffer" that is unreasonably high; it is also a bar that American capitalism very distinctly fails to clear. Suffering is great in the US. Ask the homeless, ask the struggling. There's no American freedom for them, it's an empty slogan. There's only suffering for them. My point that some prefer soviet rule is to rebut the generalization that it did not work. It didn't for many. It did for many others. American capitalism does not work for many; hence the extremism in political life. People want a change. My point is that it's an oversimplification to say ours is good, theirs was bad, when the history and reality is much more complicated than that.
- showmedeadargh 7y ago
  Get that Marxist shit out of here. "People want a change." You sound like Bernie Sanders. Are YOU running for President now? I want a change: I want evil people like you to shut up and face reality. > My point is that it's an oversimplification to say ours is good, theirs was bad, when the history and reality is much more complicated than that. It's fucking simple: millions of people died in famines and gulags in the USSR. You have the gall to compare "people who can't access health care and die prematurely" to being DISAPPEARED, TORTURED, MURDERED, AND STARVED, INTENTIONALLY, BY A GOVERNMENT THAT CLAIMED TO BE FOR THEM. You're a filthy, rotten, leftist liar--forgive my redundancy.