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"Embedded and IoT is about to get a lot bigger" I'm curious what makes you think that? Culturally, I feel like there's been some general backlash to the gratui

by _bxg1 8y ago

"Embedded and IoT is about to get a lot bigger" I'm curious what makes you think that? Culturally, I feel like there's been some general backlash to the gratuitous IoT-ification of every aspect of our lives, from a privacy perspective, a fragility perspective, and a "using apps to control everything isn't actually convenient" perspective: https://twitter.com/internetofshit https://twitter.com/internetofshit

sanxiyn 8y ago
I think Rust can help securing IoT devices.
- _bxg1 8y ago
  The problem isn't (primarily) security. And in the cases where security is the concern, like electronic door locks, the problems usually come from sheer laziness; like giving every device the same unchangeable PIN, or sending things over the air in plaintext. Things that have nothing to do with the language.
  - vardump 8y ago
    Well, at least those who do implement security protocols correctly do not need to worry as much about random memory safety related exploit chains.
SlowRobotAhead 8y ago
Microsoft just purchased TheeadX. Amazon purchased FreeRTOS. Intel, Nordic and others are dumping time into Zepher. Those are three RTOSes specifically being designed to run IoT endpoints. I’m working with FreeRTOS and AWS IoT right now, and can tell you Amazon is taking it pretty seriously. I think 90% of IoT are devices that don’t need to be connected - no doubt. But mine does and sometimes it’s there are pretty awesome use cases for it. If Rust wants to make it to C-replacement, they should be bringing over backwards to get away from DoItAllYourself IDEs and into commercial products like Keil, IAR, Segger, Attolic, etc. I promise when E+++ or Swifterz or C% or whatever crazy new hotness shows up, Rust will be the hardest hit language to lose its enthusiasts.
- steveklabnik 8y ago
  I don't know a bunch about it, but Azure IoT Edge (by Microsoft, as you'd expect) has a significant amount of Rust. I'm not sure if it's something that's directly comparable, but is at least somewhat similar.
  - SlowRobotAhead 8y ago
    Well, if they rewrite ThreadX in Rust, let me know!! :)
  - pjmlp 8y ago
    Yet they decided to go with C for Azure Sphere, in spite of the whole security history they are trying to sell around it. https://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/72ae0354-63eb-478c-a16a-a8d8f745d2e9/secure-os-while-allowing-only-c-missing-security-story?forum=azuresphere https://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/72ae0354-63eb... The pearl is the typical set of recomendations of how good C developers are expected to write unsafe secure code. When you read the marketing materials of Azure Sphere, it is all about security everywhere. Another proof that while we need safer languages, we also need to improve C's security story, as this will keep on happening anyway.
- _bxg1 8y ago
  Interesting. I didn't know about all that. The cynic in me thinks all these companies are just continuing to push on something people don't want because it's a gold-mine of data collection opportunities. The optimist wonders if IoT will settle down and mature into spaces where it's actually useful, and "90%...are devices that don’t need to be connected". We'll see, I suppose.
  - SlowRobotAhead 8y ago
    >The cynic in me thinks all these companies are just continuing to push on something people don't want because it's a gold-mine of data collection opportunities. No doubt! And the dumbest of IoT products like “connected mattresses” should prove that. In my own defense, I’m doing a LOT of work to never ask the user for an account or password, never logging personal data, just shipping a nice device that does a helpful thing. But.... there is an obvious temptation to RECORD IT ALL (figure out what to do with it later!), but I’d be a massive hypocrite. For me it’ll be a selling point that we don’t care who you are just that you have a device and want to do a thing.

by _bxg1 8y ago

sanxiyn 8y ago

I think Rust can help securing IoT devices.

_bxg1 8y ago
The problem isn't (primarily) security. And in the cases where security is the concern, like electronic door locks, the problems usually come from sheer laziness; like giving every device the same unchangeable PIN, or sending things over the air in plaintext. Things that have nothing to do with the language.
- vardump 8y ago
  Well, at least those who do implement security protocols correctly do not need to worry as much about random memory safety related exploit chains.

SlowRobotAhead 8y ago

Microsoft just purchased TheeadX. Amazon purchased FreeRTOS. Intel, Nordic and others are dumping time into Zepher. Those are three RTOSes specifically being designed to run IoT endpoints. I’m working with FreeRTOS and AWS IoT right now, and can tell you Amazon is taking it pretty seriously. I think 90% of IoT are devices that don’t need to be connected - no doubt. But mine does and sometimes it’s there are pretty awesome use cases for it. If Rust wants to make it to C-replacement, they should be bringing over backwards to get away from DoItAllYourself IDEs and into commercial products like Keil, IAR, Segger, Attolic, etc. I promise when E+++ or Swifterz or C% or whatever crazy new hotness shows up, Rust will be the hardest hit language to lose its enthusiasts.

steveklabnik 8y ago
I don't know a bunch about it, but Azure IoT Edge (by Microsoft, as you'd expect) has a significant amount of Rust. I'm not sure if it's something that's directly comparable, but is at least somewhat similar.
- SlowRobotAhead 8y ago
  Well, if they rewrite ThreadX in Rust, let me know!! :)
- pjmlp 8y ago
  Yet they decided to go with C for Azure Sphere, in spite of the whole security history they are trying to sell around it. https://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/72ae0354-63eb-478c-a16a-a8d8f745d2e9/secure-os-while-allowing-only-c-missing-security-story?forum=azuresphere https://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/72ae0354-63eb... The pearl is the typical set of recomendations of how good C developers are expected to write unsafe secure code. When you read the marketing materials of Azure Sphere, it is all about security everywhere. Another proof that while we need safer languages, we also need to improve C's security story, as this will keep on happening anyway.
_bxg1 8y ago
Interesting. I didn't know about all that. The cynic in me thinks all these companies are just continuing to push on something people don't want because it's a gold-mine of data collection opportunities. The optimist wonders if IoT will settle down and mature into spaces where it's actually useful, and "90%...are devices that don’t need to be connected". We'll see, I suppose.
- SlowRobotAhead 8y ago
  >The cynic in me thinks all these companies are just continuing to push on something people don't want because it's a gold-mine of data collection opportunities. No doubt! And the dumbest of IoT products like “connected mattresses” should prove that. In my own defense, I’m doing a LOT of work to never ask the user for an account or password, never logging personal data, just shipping a nice device that does a helpful thing. But.... there is an obvious temptation to RECORD IT ALL (figure out what to do with it later!), but I’d be a massive hypocrite. For me it’ll be a selling point that we don’t care who you are just that you have a device and want to do a thing.