3 ms·

This is really interesting. The summary is that chalking a car is similar to attaching a GPS device without a warrant, and it violates fourth amendment rights.

This is really interesting. The summary is that chalking a car is similar to attaching a GPS device without a warrant, and it violates fourth amendment rights. I imagine an easy workaround for this is to just take photos of the license plates with geolocation and have an app that can easily show you who was there ~ 1 hour ago. Probably less efficient initially, but I'm sure they could automate it.

colordrops 7y ago
I was under the assumption that they've been scanning license plates for a while now. I don't see chalk on tires in LA anymore. Could be wrong.
- codezero 7y ago
  You are right, I think a lot of places have moved to this, but I think a lot of less resourced places like a town in Michigan don't yet have this technology at the ready.
jrs235 7y ago
Yup they have the photo taking, license plate reading technology in my city of 60,000 (metro 100,000). And now they also enforce the parking restrictions for the full 24 hours on the entire block face. No longer can you drive around the block to move your vehicle and [re]park on the same black face but in a different parking spot.
grecy 7y ago
> I imagine an easy workaround for this is to just take photos of the license plates with geolocation and have an app that can easily show you who was there ~ 1 hour ago Lots of towns in Canada have exactly that now - it's a vehicle with a ton of cameras on it that just endlessly drives around, and the system automatically issues a ticket to any vehicle it determines has been in the same place longer than permitted.
jcadam 7y ago
Oh good, so now cities will need to pay a contractor to develop, operate, and maintain some complex hardware/software solution to perform a task that was until now being easily and efficiently performed using a stick of chalk. Because... reasons. Hmm... I'll have to keep an eye out for the RFPs.
- kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
  It already exists. It's just too expensive for small municipalities.
rtkwe 7y ago
Those cars exist and honestly they're worse to me than chalking because that data is stored and can be used later in theory where chalking is temporary and leaves no data behind that can be used later. I see where the legal argument stems from and makes sense but this really doesn't protect much and the alternative methods use create so much more potential for abuse!
- ethagnawl 7y ago
  > can be used later _Can_ be used later. Of all people, RMS gave a great talk at Hope XII ("We must legislate to block collection of personal data") about how these legal/technical issues can potentially be navigated. Now, I'm not saying that cameras are the answer, but it is possible to make the technology work for us and not against us. For example, the license plate readers could be programmed to capture images of the license plates which expire after a certain amount of time, are cycled out if the vehicle is not in its previous location upon the next scan, are only accessible via strict access controls, etc. Of course, in RMS' vision, the software controlling these systems is Free and there would be some way for the citizenry to validate that it's doing what it purports to, the system is running an unmodified version, etc. As a matter of practicality, this is probably a pipe dream but it _is_ possible and his talk has made me reconsider my knee jerk Luddite reaction to technological solutions and I'd highly recommend watching/listening/reading the transcript.
  - rtkwe 7y ago
    Yeah it's definitely technically possible to create a system which would respect and not violate privacy but but the ones in use today definitely don't and that's the current alternative to chalking. On top of that I have a hard time seeing cities going through the work of designing the system you describe.

colordrops 7y ago

I was under the assumption that they've been scanning license plates for a while now. I don't see chalk on tires in LA anymore. Could be wrong.

codezero 7y ago
You are right, I think a lot of places have moved to this, but I think a lot of less resourced places like a town in Michigan don't yet have this technology at the ready.

jrs235 7y ago

Yup they have the photo taking, license plate reading technology in my city of 60,000 (metro 100,000). And now they also enforce the parking restrictions for the full 24 hours on the entire block face. No longer can you drive around the block to move your vehicle and [re]park on the same black face but in a different parking spot.

grecy 7y ago

> I imagine an easy workaround for this is to just take photos of the license plates with geolocation and have an app that can easily show you who was there ~ 1 hour ago Lots of towns in Canada have exactly that now - it's a vehicle with a ton of cameras on it that just endlessly drives around, and the system automatically issues a ticket to any vehicle it determines has been in the same place longer than permitted.

jcadam 7y ago

Oh good, so now cities will need to pay a contractor to develop, operate, and maintain some complex hardware/software solution to perform a task that was until now being easily and efficiently performed using a stick of chalk. Because... reasons. Hmm... I'll have to keep an eye out for the RFPs.

kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
It already exists. It's just too expensive for small municipalities.

rtkwe 7y ago

Those cars exist and honestly they're worse to me than chalking because that data is stored and can be used later in theory where chalking is temporary and leaves no data behind that can be used later. I see where the legal argument stems from and makes sense but this really doesn't protect much and the alternative methods use create so much more potential for abuse!

ethagnawl 7y ago
> can be used later _Can_ be used later. Of all people, RMS gave a great talk at Hope XII ("We must legislate to block collection of personal data") about how these legal/technical issues can potentially be navigated. Now, I'm not saying that cameras are the answer, but it is possible to make the technology work for us and not against us. For example, the license plate readers could be programmed to capture images of the license plates which expire after a certain amount of time, are cycled out if the vehicle is not in its previous location upon the next scan, are only accessible via strict access controls, etc. Of course, in RMS' vision, the software controlling these systems is Free and there would be some way for the citizenry to validate that it's doing what it purports to, the system is running an unmodified version, etc. As a matter of practicality, this is probably a pipe dream but it _is_ possible and his talk has made me reconsider my knee jerk Luddite reaction to technological solutions and I'd highly recommend watching/listening/reading the transcript.
- rtkwe 7y ago
  Yeah it's definitely technically possible to create a system which would respect and not violate privacy but but the ones in use today definitely don't and that's the current alternative to chalking. On top of that I have a hard time seeing cities going through the work of designing the system you describe.