14 ms·

Julian Assange's Barrister speaks out

39 points by jedwhite 16y ago

jayzee 16y ago
Are there similar articles written discussing the rape allegations in the US press? I seem to have missed them...
- vukk 16y ago
  Yes http://www.aolnews.com/world/article/sex-by-surprise-at-heart-of-julian-assange-criminal-probe/19741444 http://www.aolnews.com/world/article/sex-by-surprise-at-hear...
Mrdev4 16y ago
Seems HN has turned into TMZ.
- sorbus 16y ago
  Every weekend, the balance of stories shifts, with more fluffy stories being upvoted. Come monday, it will all go back to normal again.
- jedwhite 16y ago
  Hardly, this story is about the means by which established institutions and government agencies will stretch the law to try to thwart the impact of technological change. This is not about sex. It's about the disintermediation of the traditional media and irreversible transparency of government and the exposure of truth being enabled by distributed technology. Every hacker should care deeply about what is happening to this particular hacker, and the manipulative techniques being used to smash the technologically-driven freedom of speech impact that the organization for which he has become a personification represents.
  - sigzero 16y ago
    Or the charges could be totally right...and he is a douche.
    - jedwhite 16y ago
      He may well be a douche, or a bit creepy or strange, or any of the other accusations smeared on him. But the point is that he isn't being pursued because he's a douche. He's being pursued because of his involvement in wikileaks and the technological disruption it represents. There is a deep nexus between the changes being enabled by technology and issues of personal liberty. That's why hackers on here care about technology and transparency - whether it's the transparency of your body through a backscatter imaging device, or the transparency of governments through wikileaks. Hackers are at the vanguard of the changes in technology and freedom. And they care about the liberty of their fellow citizens and democratic institutions. Technology holds both the greatest threat to and the greatest promise for liberty and democracy. How we handle it will determine if it's Big Brother keeping an eye on the people, or the people keeping an eye on Big Brother.
      - jedwhite 16y ago
        PS all of this is not to say there aren't plenty of legitimate criticisms of what wikileaks is doing. Clearly there is some stuff on there that does need discretion if it's genuinely endangering lives and there are parts that should be redacted for the public interest. But the coverage from The New York Times and other traditional media as well as across the web shows there is genuine public interest and public good served in exposure of where there is wrong doing. There is clearly scope for sensible discourse about it. But I don't believe in government assassination hit-lists or smear campaigns and trumped up sex crime charges as a replacement for honest discourse over matters of genuine and valid fourth estate purview.
btilly 16y ago
From what I've read about this elsewhere, Julian seems to be a bit of a slut. But there is a lot less meat than "rape allegations" would seem to imply. Furthermore the whole thing seems to be politically motivated. Somehow I'm very much not surprised. Incidentally I prefer the version at http://www.aolnews.com/world/article/sex-by-surprise-at-heart-of-julian-assange-criminal-probe/19741444 http://www.aolnews.com/world/article/sex-by-surprise-at-hear... because it has more detail about the whole sordid affair.
DanielBMarkham 16y ago
Ok. I have officially heard enough about Julian Assange. Unless there is considerably new information on this story -- charges filed, some new tech angle, unforeseen reaction to the leaks -- I am flagging any new posts I see. I don't flag much at all, I have a very high threshold, but this is really pushing the limits. At the very least let's agree that there are good people on both sides of this issue. Some folks think Assange is a criminal. Others don't. It's fair to say that postings going on about possible sinister plots, political action recommendations, and ways to get back at whomever opposes wikileaks doesn't help me form a better startup, doesn't inform me on startup or hacker-related issues, and can only serve to keep alive a constant bickering argument. That's not why I'm here. I just can't see all of these postings as anything more than emotional appeals to light the torches and go storm the castle. Great political fodder, perhaps, but some of us like Dr. Frankenstein and don't want the castle stormed. So to all of you who are out there wanting to make a difference and change the world, I feel your pain. Go organize, protest, and plot somewhere else please. Godspeed.
- jedwhite 16y ago
  First it will be wikileaks servers getting shutdown and the hackers there getting jailed on trumped up charges. And us "normal" hackers won't care. Then the Torrents will get closed off. It's all piracy, what do we care. Then maybe Google will start shutting down Google Docs accounts and censoring more search results (hello China) because someone has shared documents that ought not to. But we won't care. We'll move to dropbox and DuckDuckGo. Until eventually it's YOUR server getting shut down, my "normal" hacker friend. And then who will speak up for you?
  - DanielBMarkham 16y ago
    Listen to me very carefully. I think free speech is the best thing that each of us owns, and I know for a fact that freedoms are terribly under assault. I am terribly concerned that we are losing the last bit of freedoms we have. We live in a secrecy state that is only getting worse. But that emotional reaction doesn't make what wikileaks does right. It's completely possible that they have done a great good service -- and they are also criminals. You know what I feel about wikileaks? That idiots who agree with you are more dangerous to your cause than clever people who disagree. Perhaps you disagree. Fine. I don't expect everybody to agree with me. My point is that this is not a black-and-white, good-versus-evil argument. Everybody wants it to be one. Freedoms have limits. Hell, everything has limits. If you'd like to discuss this at the meta level? Email me. A few other HNers have and I enjoy the discussion. But on a board like this you're only going to get gut reactions and cartoonish slogans. The conversation is just not going to go anywhere except to a bad place. Like trotting out the old "they came for the Jews" thing, or bringing up Nazis. We're a hair away from calling each other asshats. I can see from some of the other comments that we're headed that way in a hurry. It's just a bad topic area right now, no matter what your opinion is about it. For civility's sake, let it go for a while. Please.

39 points by jedwhite 16y ago

jayzee 16y ago

Are there similar articles written discussing the rape allegations in the US press? I seem to have missed them...

vukk 16y ago
Yes http://www.aolnews.com/world/article/sex-by-surprise-at-heart-of-julian-assange-criminal-probe/19741444 http://www.aolnews.com/world/article/sex-by-surprise-at-hear...

Mrdev4 16y ago

Seems HN has turned into TMZ.

sorbus 16y ago
Every weekend, the balance of stories shifts, with more fluffy stories being upvoted. Come monday, it will all go back to normal again.
jedwhite 16y ago
Hardly, this story is about the means by which established institutions and government agencies will stretch the law to try to thwart the impact of technological change. This is not about sex. It's about the disintermediation of the traditional media and irreversible transparency of government and the exposure of truth being enabled by distributed technology. Every hacker should care deeply about what is happening to this particular hacker, and the manipulative techniques being used to smash the technologically-driven freedom of speech impact that the organization for which he has become a personification represents.
- sigzero 16y ago
  Or the charges could be totally right...and he is a douche.
  - jedwhite 16y ago
    He may well be a douche, or a bit creepy or strange, or any of the other accusations smeared on him. But the point is that he isn't being pursued because he's a douche. He's being pursued because of his involvement in wikileaks and the technological disruption it represents. There is a deep nexus between the changes being enabled by technology and issues of personal liberty. That's why hackers on here care about technology and transparency - whether it's the transparency of your body through a backscatter imaging device, or the transparency of governments through wikileaks. Hackers are at the vanguard of the changes in technology and freedom. And they care about the liberty of their fellow citizens and democratic institutions. Technology holds both the greatest threat to and the greatest promise for liberty and democracy. How we handle it will determine if it's Big Brother keeping an eye on the people, or the people keeping an eye on Big Brother.
    - jedwhite 16y ago
      PS all of this is not to say there aren't plenty of legitimate criticisms of what wikileaks is doing. Clearly there is some stuff on there that does need discretion if it's genuinely endangering lives and there are parts that should be redacted for the public interest. But the coverage from The New York Times and other traditional media as well as across the web shows there is genuine public interest and public good served in exposure of where there is wrong doing. There is clearly scope for sensible discourse about it. But I don't believe in government assassination hit-lists or smear campaigns and trumped up sex crime charges as a replacement for honest discourse over matters of genuine and valid fourth estate purview.

btilly 16y ago

From what I've read about this elsewhere, Julian seems to be a bit of a slut. But there is a lot less meat than "rape allegations" would seem to imply. Furthermore the whole thing seems to be politically motivated. Somehow I'm very much not surprised. Incidentally I prefer the version at http://www.aolnews.com/world/article/sex-by-surprise-at-heart-of-julian-assange-criminal-probe/19741444 http://www.aolnews.com/world/article/sex-by-surprise-at-hear... because it has more detail about the whole sordid affair.

DanielBMarkham 16y ago

Ok. I have officially heard enough about Julian Assange. Unless there is considerably new information on this story -- charges filed, some new tech angle, unforeseen reaction to the leaks -- I am flagging any new posts I see. I don't flag much at all, I have a very high threshold, but this is really pushing the limits. At the very least let's agree that there are good people on both sides of this issue. Some folks think Assange is a criminal. Others don't. It's fair to say that postings going on about possible sinister plots, political action recommendations, and ways to get back at whomever opposes wikileaks doesn't help me form a better startup, doesn't inform me on startup or hacker-related issues, and can only serve to keep alive a constant bickering argument. That's not why I'm here. I just can't see all of these postings as anything more than emotional appeals to light the torches and go storm the castle. Great political fodder, perhaps, but some of us like Dr. Frankenstein and don't want the castle stormed. So to all of you who are out there wanting to make a difference and change the world, I feel your pain. Go organize, protest, and plot somewhere else please. Godspeed.

jedwhite 16y ago
First it will be wikileaks servers getting shutdown and the hackers there getting jailed on trumped up charges. And us "normal" hackers won't care. Then the Torrents will get closed off. It's all piracy, what do we care. Then maybe Google will start shutting down Google Docs accounts and censoring more search results (hello China) because someone has shared documents that ought not to. But we won't care. We'll move to dropbox and DuckDuckGo. Until eventually it's YOUR server getting shut down, my "normal" hacker friend. And then who will speak up for you?
- DanielBMarkham 16y ago
  Listen to me very carefully. I think free speech is the best thing that each of us owns, and I know for a fact that freedoms are terribly under assault. I am terribly concerned that we are losing the last bit of freedoms we have. We live in a secrecy state that is only getting worse. But that emotional reaction doesn't make what wikileaks does right. It's completely possible that they have done a great good service -- and they are also criminals. You know what I feel about wikileaks? That idiots who agree with you are more dangerous to your cause than clever people who disagree. Perhaps you disagree. Fine. I don't expect everybody to agree with me. My point is that this is not a black-and-white, good-versus-evil argument. Everybody wants it to be one. Freedoms have limits. Hell, everything has limits. If you'd like to discuss this at the meta level? Email me. A few other HNers have and I enjoy the discussion. But on a board like this you're only going to get gut reactions and cartoonish slogans. The conversation is just not going to go anywhere except to a bad place. Like trotting out the old "they came for the Jews" thing, or bringing up Nazis. We're a hair away from calling each other asshats. I can see from some of the other comments that we're headed that way in a hurry. It's just a bad topic area right now, no matter what your opinion is about it. For civility's sake, let it go for a while. Please.