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As someone heavily emotionally invested in the public outdoor spaces of the United States - I really wish the larger outdoor retailers/services/etc would put mo

by tjr225 8y ago

As someone heavily emotionally invested in the public outdoor spaces of the United States - I really wish the larger outdoor retailers/services/etc would put more emphasis on respecting places "digitally." It's great that more people are getting out and enjoying the outdoors but you have to worry that we could be hugging something we love to death. Anyway, there is a small movement to create an 8th Leave no Trace principle: https://8thlnt.wordpress.com/ https://8thlnt.wordpress.com/ - and that is to be mindful of what we do digitally in the outdoors. Another good article on the subject: https://lnt.org/new-social-media-guidance/ https://lnt.org/new-social-media-guidance/ & https://www.racked.com/2018/8/27/17719792/outdoor-influencers-leave-no-trace-bears-ears https://www.racked.com/2018/8/27/17719792/outdoor-influencer... In any case, I've seen what people do to trails/nature/wilderness and its pretty depressing. Just last weekend I went hiking with my friend and his friend in the Olympic Peninsula. Friend's friend has 35k Instagram followers all from taking photos of himself and his dogs outdoors and to my great dismay he left his dog poop right on the trail within the first half mile of the hike!

misthop 8y ago
Something similar is done in caving. Cave locations are generally not shared. You learn where a cave is when someone who has been there takes you to cave it. There is sort of a secret society aspect to it, but it is maintained to keep both practitioners and the caves safe.
- genericone 8y ago
  The Spelunker's Code
LesZedCB 8y ago
outside online actually had another article about tagging locations of photos on instagram, and how those locations weren't able to deal with the subsequent influx of guests. https://www.outsideonline.com/2160416/instagram-ruining-great-outdoors https://www.outsideonline.com/2160416/instagram-ruining-grea...
- baud147258 8y ago
  It's not just outdoor places, urban location can get overwhelmed by tourists and instagramers (like this story for a Paris street: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19316546 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19316546)
soared 8y ago
Isn't this just NIMBY but for outdoors?
- habitat 8y ago
  I don't think so, although I can see where you might get that impression. There's a lot of nuance involved in this issue and once you delve a bit deeper into it you'll see that it definitely isn't NIMBYism at work. Ultimately, it's about resource protection and making sure that places don't suffer too greatly from the impacts of having a huge surge in visitors after people see them on Instagram. Perhaps the most ironic aspect of some of the criticism of being discrete about posting vulnerable outdoor locations on social media as being NIMBY or elitist is the fact that once places become super popular (Conundrum Hot Springs, wilderness areas near Portland, etc.) they almost inevitable end up becoming areas where permits are required and limited amounts are available-- thus actually limiting the number of people that can go there and making it more of an "elite" experience. There is plenty of public land for everyone to spread out on and enjoy, but real issues arise when too many people go to the same exact place (and are often uninformed about how to properly interact with a natural landscape, because the only "research" they did was see a photo on Instagram and then plug the location into Google Maps on their smartphone).
habitat 8y ago
I share your wish and think that people are coming around to the idea of respecting places digitally. I've noticed that Big Agnes, for example, is pretty discrete about the locations in their catalog. Last year there was a picture of a hot springs in an Idaho wilderness area and the caption was simply "secluded hot springs". As one of the people who started the 8th LNT "movement" (really just a haphazard attempt by myself and two friends to create a coherent "policy" stance to bring the multitude of conversations about social media impacts together under one banner) I appreciate you bringing that idea up and linking to the articles you did. LNT likely will never add an 8th principle (and in hindsight I wished we'd called the "movement" something else), but they were very responsive the idea and acknowledged the problems -- hence the social media guidelines they released. I think the fact that they did that was really courageous of them, given the potential for backlash by the "don't tell me what to do online" crowd. I'm also very emotionally invested in public lands (I moved cross-country to be closer to some of the wildest places in the lower 48 five years ago) and think that most people who are see the fact that social media impacts wild places, often negatively. Bummer about your friend's friend, but just goes to show just because people project an "outdoorsy" vibe doesn't mean they really care at all. Thanks again for linking to the articles you did, makes me happy to see someone else out there "gets it". Hope you have some great hikes this summer.

by tjr225 8y ago

misthop 8y ago

Something similar is done in caving. Cave locations are generally not shared. You learn where a cave is when someone who has been there takes you to cave it. There is sort of a secret society aspect to it, but it is maintained to keep both practitioners and the caves safe.

genericone 8y ago
The Spelunker's Code

LesZedCB 8y ago

outside online actually had another article about tagging locations of photos on instagram, and how those locations weren't able to deal with the subsequent influx of guests. https://www.outsideonline.com/2160416/instagram-ruining-great-outdoors https://www.outsideonline.com/2160416/instagram-ruining-grea...

baud147258 8y ago
It's not just outdoor places, urban location can get overwhelmed by tourists and instagramers (like this story for a Paris street: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19316546 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19316546)

soared 8y ago

Isn't this just NIMBY but for outdoors?

habitat 8y ago
I don't think so, although I can see where you might get that impression. There's a lot of nuance involved in this issue and once you delve a bit deeper into it you'll see that it definitely isn't NIMBYism at work. Ultimately, it's about resource protection and making sure that places don't suffer too greatly from the impacts of having a huge surge in visitors after people see them on Instagram. Perhaps the most ironic aspect of some of the criticism of being discrete about posting vulnerable outdoor locations on social media as being NIMBY or elitist is the fact that once places become super popular (Conundrum Hot Springs, wilderness areas near Portland, etc.) they almost inevitable end up becoming areas where permits are required and limited amounts are available-- thus actually limiting the number of people that can go there and making it more of an "elite" experience. There is plenty of public land for everyone to spread out on and enjoy, but real issues arise when too many people go to the same exact place (and are often uninformed about how to properly interact with a natural landscape, because the only "research" they did was see a photo on Instagram and then plug the location into Google Maps on their smartphone).

habitat 8y ago

I share your wish and think that people are coming around to the idea of respecting places digitally. I've noticed that Big Agnes, for example, is pretty discrete about the locations in their catalog. Last year there was a picture of a hot springs in an Idaho wilderness area and the caption was simply "secluded hot springs". As one of the people who started the 8th LNT "movement" (really just a haphazard attempt by myself and two friends to create a coherent "policy" stance to bring the multitude of conversations about social media impacts together under one banner) I appreciate you bringing that idea up and linking to the articles you did. LNT likely will never add an 8th principle (and in hindsight I wished we'd called the "movement" something else), but they were very responsive the idea and acknowledged the problems -- hence the social media guidelines they released. I think the fact that they did that was really courageous of them, given the potential for backlash by the "don't tell me what to do online" crowd. I'm also very emotionally invested in public lands (I moved cross-country to be closer to some of the wildest places in the lower 48 five years ago) and think that most people who are see the fact that social media impacts wild places, often negatively. Bummer about your friend's friend, but just goes to show just because people project an "outdoorsy" vibe doesn't mean they really care at all. Thanks again for linking to the articles you did, makes me happy to see someone else out there "gets it". Hope you have some great hikes this summer.