7 ms·

I eat a lot of frozen vegetables. This is less wasteful than fresh, because I can buy them in bulk and store them for several months. With fresh vegetables I'd

by mrob 8y ago

I eat a lot of frozen vegetables. This is less wasteful than fresh, because I can buy them in bulk and store them for several months. With fresh vegetables I'd have to make two or three journeys a week. Additionally, a lot of fresh vegetables rot in the supply chain. I demand my frozen vegetables are packaged in plastic bags. This is the standard packaging for good reason. There is no other material that combines the flexibility, lightness, and waterproofness of plastic. Plastic bags are not easily recyclable, but very little material is needed to make one. I think it's a worthwhile tradeoff to send a few grams of plastic to landfill (where the carbon stays out of the atmosphere), or burn it for energy recovery, to avoid spending far more fossil fuel on transport and wasted production. Banning plastic packaging without thinking about the consequences will do more harm than good.

onion2k 8y ago
Banning plastic would mean you'd need to buy more fresh vegetables, which would reduce the amount that's wasted now. It would also encourage you to plan your trips more efficiently (eg shop somewhere closer to home).
- mrob 8y ago
  >Banning plastic would mean you'd need to buy more fresh vegetables, which would reduce the amount that's wasted now. It would not. If I (and frozen vegetable buyers in general) switch to buying fresh vegetables, the market will increase production of fresh vegetables to compensate. >shop somewhere closer to home I already shop as close to home as possible.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- cbhl 8y ago
  I feel like banning the sale of fresh vegetables would do a whole lot more to reduce waste. Every grocery store talks about "shrink" in their Form 10K. They buy extra fruits, vegetables, and meat so that the consumer has a full shelf or display to select from. XX% of that goes unsold, gets processed into prepared food (chopped fruits/vegetables, etc.), and then what's unsold from that gets tossed or donated. Farmer's Markets have shrink too -- and the lack of climate control means that spoilage happens on the order of days, rather than weeks.
ardfie 8y ago
I can buy frozen vegetables and fish at the supermarket, which are packaged only in paper boxes (no plastic inside). For example : https://www.vomar.nl/g-woon-Tuinerwten-Extra-Fijn-450-g https://www.vomar.nl/g-woon-Tuinerwten-Extra-Fijn-450-g
- blacksmith_tb 8y ago
  Not sure about the EU market, in the US most paper or cardboard packaging for use with frozen or refrigerated foods is hard to recycle[1]. 1: https://earth911.com/food/frozen-food-box-recycling/ https://earth911.com/food/frozen-food-box-recycling/
dbcurtis 8y ago
≥ I demand my frozen vegetables are packaged in plastic bags. Paper boxes are perfectly suitable for frozen veg. They stack perfectly. Less flexible, I'll give you that. But a compostable box versus plastic seems like a win to me. I suspect the reason manufacturers and grocers like plastic is that in a paper box, poor handling is dead obvious, because if the produce partially thaws in transit the box gets damp and is a telltale for poor temperature control.
- jdietrich 8y ago
  >Paper boxes are perfectly suitable for frozen veg. Only if you coat the inside with plastic, thereby making the paper non-recyclable.
  - organsnyder 8y ago
    There are biodegradable coatings that allow the paper to still be compostable.
    - Spivak 8y ago
      If this caught on wouldn't the article be in 5 years "Just 10% of U.S. paper products are composted?" Is the problem really the material or is is the fact that it's single use.
- jolmg 8y ago
  Paper boxes are also single-use and meant to be recycled, aren't they? This subthread is about how recycling is not enough and how we need to switch to reusable packaging. Instead of paper boxes, it would be nice if it became the norm to go into stores with our own containers to put our food in instead of using store-provided, single-use packaging. It's ok if they're plastic as long as they're intended and made to be used and reused for years.
  - jdsully 8y ago
    The paper boxes are bio degradable. A major difference.
telesilla 8y ago
I get my frozen vegetables in cardboard boxes and they keep fine. They definitely don't need to be in plastic. Plus they stack: extra bonus for a clean-looking freezer.
8bitsrule 8y ago
The bags being made by the process in the cited article are specifically designed to be quickly recycleable ... eliminating the 'worthwhile tradeoff' in the event of sensible, defendable policy.

by mrob 8y ago

onion2k 8y ago

Banning plastic would mean you'd need to buy more fresh vegetables, which would reduce the amount that's wasted now. It would also encourage you to plan your trips more efficiently (eg shop somewhere closer to home).

mrob 8y ago
>Banning plastic would mean you'd need to buy more fresh vegetables, which would reduce the amount that's wasted now. It would not. If I (and frozen vegetable buyers in general) switch to buying fresh vegetables, the market will increase production of fresh vegetables to compensate. >shop somewhere closer to home I already shop as close to home as possible.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
cbhl 8y ago
I feel like banning the sale of fresh vegetables would do a whole lot more to reduce waste. Every grocery store talks about "shrink" in their Form 10K. They buy extra fruits, vegetables, and meat so that the consumer has a full shelf or display to select from. XX% of that goes unsold, gets processed into prepared food (chopped fruits/vegetables, etc.), and then what's unsold from that gets tossed or donated. Farmer's Markets have shrink too -- and the lack of climate control means that spoilage happens on the order of days, rather than weeks.

ardfie 8y ago

I can buy frozen vegetables and fish at the supermarket, which are packaged only in paper boxes (no plastic inside). For example : https://www.vomar.nl/g-woon-Tuinerwten-Extra-Fijn-450-g https://www.vomar.nl/g-woon-Tuinerwten-Extra-Fijn-450-g

blacksmith_tb 8y ago
Not sure about the EU market, in the US most paper or cardboard packaging for use with frozen or refrigerated foods is hard to recycle[1]. 1: https://earth911.com/food/frozen-food-box-recycling/ https://earth911.com/food/frozen-food-box-recycling/

dbcurtis 8y ago

≥ I demand my frozen vegetables are packaged in plastic bags. Paper boxes are perfectly suitable for frozen veg. They stack perfectly. Less flexible, I'll give you that. But a compostable box versus plastic seems like a win to me. I suspect the reason manufacturers and grocers like plastic is that in a paper box, poor handling is dead obvious, because if the produce partially thaws in transit the box gets damp and is a telltale for poor temperature control.

jdietrich 8y ago
>Paper boxes are perfectly suitable for frozen veg. Only if you coat the inside with plastic, thereby making the paper non-recyclable.
- organsnyder 8y ago
  There are biodegradable coatings that allow the paper to still be compostable.
  - Spivak 8y ago
    If this caught on wouldn't the article be in 5 years "Just 10% of U.S. paper products are composted?" Is the problem really the material or is is the fact that it's single use.
jolmg 8y ago
Paper boxes are also single-use and meant to be recycled, aren't they? This subthread is about how recycling is not enough and how we need to switch to reusable packaging. Instead of paper boxes, it would be nice if it became the norm to go into stores with our own containers to put our food in instead of using store-provided, single-use packaging. It's ok if they're plastic as long as they're intended and made to be used and reused for years.
- jdsully 8y ago
  The paper boxes are bio degradable. A major difference.

telesilla 8y ago

I get my frozen vegetables in cardboard boxes and they keep fine. They definitely don't need to be in plastic. Plus they stack: extra bonus for a clean-looking freezer.

8bitsrule 8y ago

The bags being made by the process in the cited article are specifically designed to be quickly recycleable ... eliminating the 'worthwhile tradeoff' in the event of sensible, defendable policy.