4 ms·

I had this experience in the early 00s. I helped quite a few (of my parents) neighbors with PC and Windows-related problems. It didn't bother me to do it for fr

I had this experience in the early 00s. I helped quite a few (of my parents) neighbors with PC and Windows-related problems. It didn't bother me to do it for free, I offered everything for free. One of their neighbors was, at the time, a reporter for the Columbus Dispatch. His power supply was on it's last leg and he was dealing with his machine randomly crashing. I swapped in an unused PSU that I had at the house and he couldn't believe that I didn't want to charge him $200 or something. These days I'm lucky to even see my neighbors or get a friendly "Hello" back from them.

chasd00 8y ago
"These days I'm lucky to even see my neighbors or get a friendly "Hello" back from them." this is why i very very reluctantly accept anything for free. Even if the person claims to "just being nice" there's an implied debt just like you state here. I would much rather barter or pay cash up front and square the deal than breed resentment or the awkward "hey I need you to do something for me because you owe me.." conversation.
- projektfu 8y ago
  I read that as a separate thought. When he was younger he knew his neighbors and helped them freely. Now neighbors don't introduce themselves. I could be wrong.
  - scruple 8y ago
    The thoughts were were loosely connected, but I wouldn't read too much into anything that I write (especially that early in the morning). Mostly, I think it's that I'm sentimental and nostalgic for the period of time that I grew up in. It felt like, back then, in that time and that place, that people were genuinely neighborly and helpful for a sense of the greater good. I could rattle off hundreds of instances of personally helping neighbors out, as my parents did, and as other neighbors and family friends did to us in kind, and at least for my piece, I didn't expect a debt to be repaid and I never felt that coming from others. Maybe it's just my own naivety speaking. Maybe people genuinely did implicitly create a debt in their heads for those favors or deeds. I don't think they did, but I don't really know. I do know that, by the time that computers were a household commodity, and I was able to help folks with theirs, that they absolutely expected to have to pay for _that_ sort of service. More recently, I've only had the opportunity to help 2 or 3 people through all of the 2010s. Each of them were friends, or people that I was trying to cultivate a friendship with (it wasn't reciprocated, but that's fine, too). I've known the names of exactly 3 families that I've lived literally next door to since moving to California in 2008. I suppose that I'm just longing for the loss of something that I can't quite explain nor properly articulate on a work day.
- neuralRiot 8y ago
  This is exactly the root of the problem, it's so ingrained in our culture that everything has to be done "for something" that you can't even grasp that someone might want to do or give something without asking anything in return. I do a lot of things or give without expecting even thankfulness.
  - zxcmx 8y ago
    I don’t know if it’s “our culture”, it’s part of it but personality also comes into play. If you spend time and effort doing something for someone and expect nothing in return it’s only natural that many people will feel uncomfortable unless they believe they understand why you’re doing it. It’s not necessarily transactional; understanding the motives of others is how people make sense of human interaction. Their understanding doesn’t have to be correct! It just has to make sense to them somehow. Some possible reasons a person is doing a thing for me: * They like me, we’re friends * They like doing the thing or keeping busy * They have a religion (Christianity, GNU/Linux) * They like to feel helpful or useful, to teach or to demonstrate expertise * We have a group bond (church, neighbourhood, club, etc) * They’re doing me a favour. I’m a useful person and I’ll be able to do them a good turn in future. * They owe me something (loyalty, money) and they’re paying me back by doing this * They’re trying to rip me off somehow or get something out of me * I’m incapable and they judge that I’m clearly in need of help (charity) More self-reliant people are the ones who seem reluctant to accept free help. I think it actually hurts their pride a little to have to rely on you and not be able to give something in return. Accepting some jars of jam or a bit of money in return seems like a kindness.
    - agumonkey 8y ago
      You have a point and I forgot to add that above. I had many motives. I'm annoyed at society race for new and shiney when you don't have to. It was part of the reason the interaction wasn't super neat because it was a bit of a foggy subtext. Now it wasn't all, I wanted to show her what was possible with her machine, and relieve her of stress. But it's true that when we spend time with people, the faster you make sure there's no hidden agenda from your side, the better. I believe if your mind and heart is clear, people will follow rapidly. It's a trust issue.
- JohnFen 8y ago
  > Even if the person claims to "just being nice" there's an implied debt just like you state here. If someone gives me something for free, I have no problem accepting it on those terms and feel no implied debt. Probably because when I do/give things to others for free, I never feel that person owes me anything more than a "thank you." I have encountered people who've done things for me with an expectation that I somehow owe them something, but I consider them as subverting basic social interactions, and will reduce my interactions with them.
- agumonkey 8y ago
  You know it took me a long time to understand this part of human nature and social interactions. And I believe it's one of the deepest force behind all the technological change and society evolution. We want to be able to do more without feeling indebted to someone. Today it's reached the point where we almost don't want to owe a hello to a cashier at McDonald's. We want to deal less and less with the potential randomness of people. I believe we're doing away with the art of trust and replace it with a computerized world.

chasd00 8y ago

"These days I'm lucky to even see my neighbors or get a friendly "Hello" back from them." this is why i very very reluctantly accept anything for free. Even if the person claims to "just being nice" there's an implied debt just like you state here. I would much rather barter or pay cash up front and square the deal than breed resentment or the awkward "hey I need you to do something for me because you owe me.." conversation.

projektfu 8y ago
I read that as a separate thought. When he was younger he knew his neighbors and helped them freely. Now neighbors don't introduce themselves. I could be wrong.
- scruple 8y ago
  The thoughts were were loosely connected, but I wouldn't read too much into anything that I write (especially that early in the morning). Mostly, I think it's that I'm sentimental and nostalgic for the period of time that I grew up in. It felt like, back then, in that time and that place, that people were genuinely neighborly and helpful for a sense of the greater good. I could rattle off hundreds of instances of personally helping neighbors out, as my parents did, and as other neighbors and family friends did to us in kind, and at least for my piece, I didn't expect a debt to be repaid and I never felt that coming from others. Maybe it's just my own naivety speaking. Maybe people genuinely did implicitly create a debt in their heads for those favors or deeds. I don't think they did, but I don't really know. I do know that, by the time that computers were a household commodity, and I was able to help folks with theirs, that they absolutely expected to have to pay for _that_ sort of service. More recently, I've only had the opportunity to help 2 or 3 people through all of the 2010s. Each of them were friends, or people that I was trying to cultivate a friendship with (it wasn't reciprocated, but that's fine, too). I've known the names of exactly 3 families that I've lived literally next door to since moving to California in 2008. I suppose that I'm just longing for the loss of something that I can't quite explain nor properly articulate on a work day.
neuralRiot 8y ago
This is exactly the root of the problem, it's so ingrained in our culture that everything has to be done "for something" that you can't even grasp that someone might want to do or give something without asking anything in return. I do a lot of things or give without expecting even thankfulness.
- zxcmx 8y ago
  I don’t know if it’s “our culture”, it’s part of it but personality also comes into play. If you spend time and effort doing something for someone and expect nothing in return it’s only natural that many people will feel uncomfortable unless they believe they understand why you’re doing it. It’s not necessarily transactional; understanding the motives of others is how people make sense of human interaction. Their understanding doesn’t have to be correct! It just has to make sense to them somehow. Some possible reasons a person is doing a thing for me: * They like me, we’re friends * They like doing the thing or keeping busy * They have a religion (Christianity, GNU/Linux) * They like to feel helpful or useful, to teach or to demonstrate expertise * We have a group bond (church, neighbourhood, club, etc) * They’re doing me a favour. I’m a useful person and I’ll be able to do them a good turn in future. * They owe me something (loyalty, money) and they’re paying me back by doing this * They’re trying to rip me off somehow or get something out of me * I’m incapable and they judge that I’m clearly in need of help (charity) More self-reliant people are the ones who seem reluctant to accept free help. I think it actually hurts their pride a little to have to rely on you and not be able to give something in return. Accepting some jars of jam or a bit of money in return seems like a kindness.
  - agumonkey 8y ago
    You have a point and I forgot to add that above. I had many motives. I'm annoyed at society race for new and shiney when you don't have to. It was part of the reason the interaction wasn't super neat because it was a bit of a foggy subtext. Now it wasn't all, I wanted to show her what was possible with her machine, and relieve her of stress. But it's true that when we spend time with people, the faster you make sure there's no hidden agenda from your side, the better. I believe if your mind and heart is clear, people will follow rapidly. It's a trust issue.
JohnFen 8y ago
> Even if the person claims to "just being nice" there's an implied debt just like you state here. If someone gives me something for free, I have no problem accepting it on those terms and feel no implied debt. Probably because when I do/give things to others for free, I never feel that person owes me anything more than a "thank you." I have encountered people who've done things for me with an expectation that I somehow owe them something, but I consider them as subverting basic social interactions, and will reduce my interactions with them.
agumonkey 8y ago
You know it took me a long time to understand this part of human nature and social interactions. And I believe it's one of the deepest force behind all the technological change and society evolution. We want to be able to do more without feeling indebted to someone. Today it's reached the point where we almost don't want to owe a hello to a cashier at McDonald's. We want to deal less and less with the potential randomness of people. I believe we're doing away with the art of trust and replace it with a computerized world.