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Petrochemical reporter here. The article fails to describe whether this plastic behaves like polyethylene, which can be pliable and flexible, or polypropylene,

Petrochemical reporter here. The article fails to describe whether this plastic behaves like polyethylene, which can be pliable and flexible, or polypropylene, which is rigid and brittle. Or any of the other dozens of varieties of plastics, each with their own specific use in this modern world of ours. Every time I overhear someone at a party or gathering giving their half-baked description of a story like this I have to roll my eyes. There's no "cure-all" sustainable green plastic that can replace the variety we make from natural gas. There just isn't. And even if we were to switch to bioplastics derived from plants, it would still be too energy-intestive to be cost-effective.

frankbreetz 7y ago
Too expensive? How expensive is it? If a package cost an extra couple dollars to send we could make do. A big part of tackling all of these environmental issues is that certain things are going to be more expensive. If it cost 10$ to make certain a disposable water bottle makes it to the right place a bottle of water should cost about 11$. Same with packaging, this will of course change consumer habits, and make people think twice.
- newswriter99 7y ago
  You have to consider the economies of scale. A few dollars multiplied over millions of manufacturing orders and shipping costs. And that's just cost. The reason I'm stressing about virgin plastic over recycled is also in consideration of the electricity you use to recycle, the water costs, transportation costs, human labor, ect. The same applies to glass and cardboard. That sand isn't coming from thin air. The cardboard wasn't made from hopes and dreams. These are physical commodities which are either as finite as natural gas (sand) or require space, water and nutrients to grow (trees for paper for cardboard). Yes, paper is biodegradable and plastic is not, but you're spending a LOT of time and energy to make something that could be better served quickly via plastic.
  - frankbreetz 7y ago
    You also have to consider the cost of disposal, which isn't currently done when creating plastics. Is it eventually going to have to be paid for by the taxpayers of some countries? By making cheap, quick plastic we are creating a very expensive problem. Might it be better to deal with this problem on the front end?
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
black6 7y ago
The new plastic appears to be a vitrimer, which is a class of thermoset, so not well suited as a replacement for the types of polymer plastics that tend to junk up the environment (thermosets, because of their durability, tend to have very long useable lifetimes -- I have milk crates I use for storage that are older than me!)
Balgair 7y ago
Aside: Since plastic fishing nets make up ~50% of the oceanic plastic [0], I'm hoping that this is of the more polyethylene form. [0] https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2018/03/great-pacific-garbage-patch-plastics-environment/ https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2018/03/great-pacific-ga...

frankbreetz 7y ago

Too expensive? How expensive is it? If a package cost an extra couple dollars to send we could make do. A big part of tackling all of these environmental issues is that certain things are going to be more expensive. If it cost 10$ to make certain a disposable water bottle makes it to the right place a bottle of water should cost about 11$. Same with packaging, this will of course change consumer habits, and make people think twice.

newswriter99 7y ago
You have to consider the economies of scale. A few dollars multiplied over millions of manufacturing orders and shipping costs. And that's just cost. The reason I'm stressing about virgin plastic over recycled is also in consideration of the electricity you use to recycle, the water costs, transportation costs, human labor, ect. The same applies to glass and cardboard. That sand isn't coming from thin air. The cardboard wasn't made from hopes and dreams. These are physical commodities which are either as finite as natural gas (sand) or require space, water and nutrients to grow (trees for paper for cardboard). Yes, paper is biodegradable and plastic is not, but you're spending a LOT of time and energy to make something that could be better served quickly via plastic.
- frankbreetz 7y ago
  You also have to consider the cost of disposal, which isn't currently done when creating plastics. Is it eventually going to have to be paid for by the taxpayers of some countries? By making cheap, quick plastic we are creating a very expensive problem. Might it be better to deal with this problem on the front end?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]

black6 7y ago

The new plastic appears to be a vitrimer, which is a class of thermoset, so not well suited as a replacement for the types of polymer plastics that tend to junk up the environment (thermosets, because of their durability, tend to have very long useable lifetimes -- I have milk crates I use for storage that are older than me!)

Balgair 7y ago

Aside: Since plastic fishing nets make up ~50% of the oceanic plastic [0], I'm hoping that this is of the more polyethylene form. [0] https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2018/03/great-pacific-garbage-patch-plastics-environment/ https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2018/03/great-pacific-ga...