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Here's a better pitch based on your feedback and maybe more tailored to the Hacker News crowd. The Internet is broken as content primary pools behind walled ga

Here's a better pitch based on your feedback and maybe more tailored to the Hacker News crowd. The Internet is broken as content primary pools behind walled gardens like Facebook and Twitter. These platforms are not open in the sense that the metadata is locked up inside them. Additionally, they're not very respective of the rights and privacy of their user base. Polar tries to reboot this by building out a generic datastore model where users can share content with anyone of their backend datastores. The information/metadata model is free and portable and content and metadata can flow across networks. Polar is implemented as a 'read it later' style app similar to an RSS reader where you can add documents directly (vs RSS subscribing to a feed) and manage them and keep track of your reading. The key part is that Polar adds a metadata layer on top of PDF and the web and you can exchange the metadata with other users (still being implemented, initial sharing should ship next week). This means that you can add content from anywhere on the web and also share it with anyone else. We also archive the content and the actual content archives can be exchanged too. This means if anything is ever deleted you still have a copy. Polar also adds support for features like spaced repetition (never forget anything) and incremental reading (never forget what you're reading and where you left off) to encourage you to use Polar to manage all your reading material. The idea is that if people have a very valuable app to keep track of their content that they're more naturally likely to use it which means that the sharing and open content vision is directly powered by users. Right now we support local mode and cloud powered by Google's Firebase. We're planning on adding other backend providers like Filecoin but we have to take baby steps now because we're still an early project. Polar's design (though not yet implemented) can support end to end encryption and key sharing for group encryption. This means we can support fully end to end encrypted datastores. You can use a system to store your data (that you don't trust) and only you have the key. Additionally, if you want private group sharing we support one to many encryption where you can fan out content to anyone in a fully private group. It's important that this remains Open Source so that we can rely that Polar isn't just going to vanish.

walterbell 8y ago
Is there a vision for interop with other OSS projects that have pursued similar goals, e.g. IndieWeb, https://indieweb.org/Category:building-blocks https://indieweb.org/Category:building-blocks? Who are the OSS or commercial competitors to Polar?
- burtonator 8y ago
  The internal design of Polar factors this in and I've been pretty aggressive of keeping the code isolated so people can just plugin in new Datastores. The Datastore model means that someone can write a new Datastore and that will be support federation.
jeswin 8y ago
You're a for profit company, running on a propriety firebase backend, focused on solving one single (but important) use case for which solutions having varying degrees of success and utility already exist. You're not going to "reboot the internet" - that headline is a very grandiose claim likely to turn off most people on this forum.
- burtonator 8y ago
  Well I suck if my goal is anything other trying to make the world a better place. I've been working on Polar for free for the last six months ten hours a day 6-7 days a week because I want the world to be a better place. But hey.. I guess I should be doing this for free because I'm grandiose and trying to make the world a better place.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - tempguy9999 8y ago
    > Well I suck if my goal is anything other trying to make the world a better place. Yeah, you do, and so do I if I try to do anything. While people here have a valid question ('wat is this thing?') which you need to address, and perhaps you oversold your case, I feel for you. Stick your neck out for other people and a common breed of web-dog will stick its teeth in, howling "it'll never work so there's no point trying!". And thereby will ensure it won't. Disheartening isn't it, but there are plenty of good people though. I can't help you at the moment (tough times here I'm afraid) but I wish you luck!
    - burtonator 8y ago
      Respect :).. thanks.. No good deed goes unpunished :)
  - Taylor_OD 8y ago
    I don't think that tone will help you.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
uxamanda 8y ago
I think there’s a headline in there with the double meaning of “Save the web.” Something like... “Save the web. Polar helps you archive, search, and take notes on what you read online. Whether it’s the web-based documentation you need to keep that one piece of infrastructure running, that PDF for your dissertation research, or anything else online you’d like to keep your own copy of, Polar can help. Plus we think by helping people save their copy of the web, we can fix the web too. Learn more.” But with better examples from how your customers are already using Polar. I’ve been looking for an open source solution to this problem (basically, how can I have my own search engine built from things I’ve read) for a while now. I’m not ready to add a new tool quite yet, but am keeping an eye on this. Good luck!
mercer 8y ago
I've been thinking on something similar for a long time, and first of all congrats for actually building something. I never got that far. As for feedback, I'd strongly suggest focusing on UX above all else. I tried Polarized a while ago, and gave up on using it because it didn't 'feel' very usable. I know that's vague feedback, and I wish I could be more specific, but broadly speaking it just felt more like a great idea rather than a great tool. The internet wasn't successful because of the idea(l)s behind it. It was successful because it was simple, practically and conceptually speaking, and anyone with a text editor could do something amazing with it ("look ma, the whole world can read what I wrote!"). Or another example: I get all warm and fuzzy when I think about Emacs and its extensibility and whatnot, but I use VSCode for most of my day to day coding because it gives me a nice default set of features that are well-integrated and presented in a unified UI. I also don't particularly like Apple and what it stands for, but here I am paying a premium for a MacBook (2015 model, but still) and OSX because if I'm gonna spend my day using a tool, it better feel right!
jammygit 8y ago
I edited your pitch briefly to shorten it, to change from abstract to concrete, and emphasize slightly different things. This version is still not concrete enough imo, and the benefit not crystal-clear enough, but this was just a quick edit The Internet is the greatest content-sharing system ever devised, but it is broken. The content that people create is being pooled within walled gardens like Facebook and Twitter where comments, likes, and ability to share with friend is locked down. While this content is locked down, users have no control over their rights or their privacy. Their ability to use this content and its metadata is also severely limited. Polar is attempting to reboot the internet by correcting these issues. Polar protects the rights of users by providing a free and portable personal datastore where users can link content, reactions, comments, and discussions with anyone on their own terms. Polar is implemented as a 'read it later' style app similar to an RSS reader where you add entire documents to your datastore. The key part is that Polar adds a metadata layer on top of PDF and the web: you can add notes, markups, reading progress, or even flash cards, and finally exchange both the documents and the metadata with anyone of your choosing. Note that this makes Polar ideal for both spaced repetition learning (never forget anything), and for incremental reading (never forget what you're reading and where you left off)! What We Are Building Right now we support local mode and cloud powered by Google's Firebase. We intend to use our funding for X Y Z Polar's design (though not yet implemented) can support end to end encryption and key sharing for group encryption. This means we can support fully private user networks that require zero trust. Finally, in order for this project to reboot the internet as it is capable of, it is important that this remains Open Source. Because of this, Polar will never vanish and need never give in to special interests that are not our own.
- gomox 8y ago
  I like this better. I would remove the spaced repetition paragraph, and everything below it. The key parts to convey are what and why. How comes later. I would also skip the "metadata" term. Everyone that understands it can see that if there is a note layer on top of the content, it's metadata. To people that don't get it, it's techno babble. I actually like the "reboot the internet" catchphrase. @OP I trust you've been around the internets enough to not let the HN negativity get to you, but in case some of the shit comments in this thread pierce through: good job, keep at it :)
JohnFen 8y ago
> The Internet is broken as content primary pools behind walled gardens like Facebook and Twitter. Wait, this confuses me even more. My understanding is that Polar is basically a content management system. Is that not correct? If I understand correctly, then it is an entirely different beast than the likes of Facebook or Twitter. If the comparison to Facebook and Twitter is apt, then I have no idea of what Polar actually is.
cldwalker 8y ago
Have you looked into Solid, https://solid.inrupt.com/ https://solid.inrupt.com/, for a distributed data store model? For annotations, have you looked at https://web.hypothes.is/ https://web.hypothes.is/ which uses the web annotations standard? These are both fairly large efforts and could be useful to build on

walterbell 8y ago

Is there a vision for interop with other OSS projects that have pursued similar goals, e.g. IndieWeb, https://indieweb.org/Category:building-blocks https://indieweb.org/Category:building-blocks? Who are the OSS or commercial competitors to Polar?

burtonator 8y ago
The internal design of Polar factors this in and I've been pretty aggressive of keeping the code isolated so people can just plugin in new Datastores. The Datastore model means that someone can write a new Datastore and that will be support federation.

jeswin 8y ago

You're a for profit company, running on a propriety firebase backend, focused on solving one single (but important) use case for which solutions having varying degrees of success and utility already exist. You're not going to "reboot the internet" - that headline is a very grandiose claim likely to turn off most people on this forum.

burtonator 8y ago
Well I suck if my goal is anything other trying to make the world a better place. I've been working on Polar for free for the last six months ten hours a day 6-7 days a week because I want the world to be a better place. But hey.. I guess I should be doing this for free because I'm grandiose and trying to make the world a better place.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- tempguy9999 8y ago
  > Well I suck if my goal is anything other trying to make the world a better place. Yeah, you do, and so do I if I try to do anything. While people here have a valid question ('wat is this thing?') which you need to address, and perhaps you oversold your case, I feel for you. Stick your neck out for other people and a common breed of web-dog will stick its teeth in, howling "it'll never work so there's no point trying!". And thereby will ensure it won't. Disheartening isn't it, but there are plenty of good people though. I can't help you at the moment (tough times here I'm afraid) but I wish you luck!
  - burtonator 8y ago
    Respect :).. thanks.. No good deed goes unpunished :)
- Taylor_OD 8y ago
  I don't think that tone will help you.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

uxamanda 8y ago

I think there’s a headline in there with the double meaning of “Save the web.” Something like... “Save the web. Polar helps you archive, search, and take notes on what you read online. Whether it’s the web-based documentation you need to keep that one piece of infrastructure running, that PDF for your dissertation research, or anything else online you’d like to keep your own copy of, Polar can help. Plus we think by helping people save their copy of the web, we can fix the web too. Learn more.” But with better examples from how your customers are already using Polar. I’ve been looking for an open source solution to this problem (basically, how can I have my own search engine built from things I’ve read) for a while now. I’m not ready to add a new tool quite yet, but am keeping an eye on this. Good luck!

mercer 8y ago

I've been thinking on something similar for a long time, and first of all congrats for actually building something. I never got that far. As for feedback, I'd strongly suggest focusing on UX above all else. I tried Polarized a while ago, and gave up on using it because it didn't 'feel' very usable. I know that's vague feedback, and I wish I could be more specific, but broadly speaking it just felt more like a great idea rather than a great tool. The internet wasn't successful because of the idea(l)s behind it. It was successful because it was simple, practically and conceptually speaking, and anyone with a text editor could do something amazing with it ("look ma, the whole world can read what I wrote!"). Or another example: I get all warm and fuzzy when I think about Emacs and its extensibility and whatnot, but I use VSCode for most of my day to day coding because it gives me a nice default set of features that are well-integrated and presented in a unified UI. I also don't particularly like Apple and what it stands for, but here I am paying a premium for a MacBook (2015 model, but still) and OSX because if I'm gonna spend my day using a tool, it better feel right!

jammygit 8y ago

I edited your pitch briefly to shorten it, to change from abstract to concrete, and emphasize slightly different things. This version is still not concrete enough imo, and the benefit not crystal-clear enough, but this was just a quick edit The Internet is the greatest content-sharing system ever devised, but it is broken. The content that people create is being pooled within walled gardens like Facebook and Twitter where comments, likes, and ability to share with friend is locked down. While this content is locked down, users have no control over their rights or their privacy. Their ability to use this content and its metadata is also severely limited. Polar is attempting to reboot the internet by correcting these issues. Polar protects the rights of users by providing a free and portable personal datastore where users can link content, reactions, comments, and discussions with anyone on their own terms. Polar is implemented as a 'read it later' style app similar to an RSS reader where you add entire documents to your datastore. The key part is that Polar adds a metadata layer on top of PDF and the web: you can add notes, markups, reading progress, or even flash cards, and finally exchange both the documents and the metadata with anyone of your choosing. Note that this makes Polar ideal for both spaced repetition learning (never forget anything), and for incremental reading (never forget what you're reading and where you left off)! What We Are Building Right now we support local mode and cloud powered by Google's Firebase. We intend to use our funding for X Y Z Polar's design (though not yet implemented) can support end to end encryption and key sharing for group encryption. This means we can support fully private user networks that require zero trust. Finally, in order for this project to reboot the internet as it is capable of, it is important that this remains Open Source. Because of this, Polar will never vanish and need never give in to special interests that are not our own.

gomox 8y ago
I like this better. I would remove the spaced repetition paragraph, and everything below it. The key parts to convey are what and why. How comes later. I would also skip the "metadata" term. Everyone that understands it can see that if there is a note layer on top of the content, it's metadata. To people that don't get it, it's techno babble. I actually like the "reboot the internet" catchphrase. @OP I trust you've been around the internets enough to not let the HN negativity get to you, but in case some of the shit comments in this thread pierce through: good job, keep at it :)

JohnFen 8y ago

> The Internet is broken as content primary pools behind walled gardens like Facebook and Twitter. Wait, this confuses me even more. My understanding is that Polar is basically a content management system. Is that not correct? If I understand correctly, then it is an entirely different beast than the likes of Facebook or Twitter. If the comparison to Facebook and Twitter is apt, then I have no idea of what Polar actually is.

cldwalker 8y ago

Have you looked into Solid, https://solid.inrupt.com/ https://solid.inrupt.com/, for a distributed data store model? For annotations, have you looked at https://web.hypothes.is/ https://web.hypothes.is/ which uses the web annotations standard? These are both fairly large efforts and could be useful to build on