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There’s definitely a learning curve, but it’s not a terribly steep one, and most minds with programming aptitude don’t seem to have much trouble with it after t

There’s definitely a learning curve, but it’s not a terribly steep one, and most minds with programming aptitude don’t seem to have much trouble with it after that. It’s similar to learning declensions in Russian/German/Latin: weird and seemingly pointless to English speakers, and then usually fully internalized after a few months, with better intuition for costs and benefits of syntax vs cases. I’d argue that the Clojure learning curve is significantly shorter than that also. The best criticisms of Clojure (and I’ve written a lot in it) have nothing to do with parentheses, but rather the difficulties of grokking other people’s dynamic, untyped code.

ken 7y ago
Worse than untyped code is undocumented code. Some programmers think types obviate the need for docs. Some programmers think concision obviates the need for docs. Except in the most trivial cases, they're both wrong.
paultopia 7y ago
My gripe with other people's code in Clojure is less understandability in terms of types and more in terms of style. A lot of major clojure libraries seem to use a really indirect style that brings a bunch of OO-style concepts back in. Like, I'm thinking of libraries like Component and Mount whose authors seem to have been aiming for a dependency injection kind of experience and end up creating a bunch of free-floating state, where, for example, you use a template to scaffold a simple webapp up, and it's surprisingly hard to figure out where in the code it's talking to the database. This actually caused me to leave the clojure ecosystem eventually.
- lincpa 7y ago
  If you use "The Pure Function Pipeline Data Flow",it only need Unix-style pipes and functions. you won't have to use concepts or patterns of OO&FP, and the parentheses are less than any programming language ;) [The Pure Function Pipeline Data Flow](https://github.com/linpengcheng/PurefunctionPipelineDataflow https://github.com/linpengcheng/PurefunctionPipelineDataflow)
  - pepper_sauce 7y ago
    Hi Lin Pengcheng, do you have an example of making side-effect calls with Pure Function Pipeline Data Flow method? e.g. database query.
    - lincpa 7y ago
      A series of functions in a ->> block can only have one function with side effects and can only be at the end. Exception handling is included in the function of side effects, and the exception is handled as actively as possible. In management, if an exception is encountered, always throw it to the superior, who will be fired:-) you can do it like ring, treat client and server as db, query each other.

ken 7y ago

Worse than untyped code is undocumented code. Some programmers think types obviate the need for docs. Some programmers think concision obviates the need for docs. Except in the most trivial cases, they're both wrong.

paultopia 7y ago

My gripe with other people's code in Clojure is less understandability in terms of types and more in terms of style. A lot of major clojure libraries seem to use a really indirect style that brings a bunch of OO-style concepts back in. Like, I'm thinking of libraries like Component and Mount whose authors seem to have been aiming for a dependency injection kind of experience and end up creating a bunch of free-floating state, where, for example, you use a template to scaffold a simple webapp up, and it's surprisingly hard to figure out where in the code it's talking to the database. This actually caused me to leave the clojure ecosystem eventually.

lincpa 7y ago
If you use "The Pure Function Pipeline Data Flow",it only need Unix-style pipes and functions. you won't have to use concepts or patterns of OO&FP, and the parentheses are less than any programming language ;) [The Pure Function Pipeline Data Flow](https://github.com/linpengcheng/PurefunctionPipelineDataflow https://github.com/linpengcheng/PurefunctionPipelineDataflow)
- pepper_sauce 7y ago
  Hi Lin Pengcheng, do you have an example of making side-effect calls with Pure Function Pipeline Data Flow method? e.g. database query.
  - lincpa 7y ago
    A series of functions in a ->> block can only have one function with side effects and can only be at the end. Exception handling is included in the function of side effects, and the exception is handled as actively as possible. In management, if an exception is encountered, always throw it to the superior, who will be fired:-) you can do it like ring, treat client and server as db, query each other.