10 ms·

Rise of ghost hotels casts pall over Toronto rental market

21 points by parthdesai 8y ago

parthdesai 8y ago
https://outline.com/mHDHEM https://outline.com/mHDHEM, if the article is pay walled.
scld 8y ago
All this means is that there's a demand for more housing, in one form or another.
- NotSammyHagar 8y ago
  I thought a big reason for Airbnb's success is they are large enough that they're now the go to site to find short-term housing. What's the non Airbnb site that you go to? They're successful just because everyone goes there.
skilled 8y ago
The more the merrier. If this brings down prices for apartment rentals then I am all for it. So many people are willing to leave their Airbnb apartments empty for months at a time only to cash in on an absurd "premium".
- wolco 8y ago
  It increases the prices as supply is reduced overall.
conanbatt 8y ago
If it only came to the idea of the Toronto government to ban tourism, it would achieve the same effect as reducing airbnb's.
- b0bby_tabl3s 8y ago
  LOL! That will never happen. Most who travel there are coming for the weed and sex. Even the cities website used to have a pic of lipstick covered lips.
- parthdesai 8y ago
  Absolutely not true, maybe look into the matter and data first before commenting?
  - conanbatt 8y ago
    What data do you want, that Airbnb is used by tourists? There's plenty for it: https://www.airbnbcitizen.com/airbnb-shares-new-data-globally-and-starts-initiative-to-drive-healthy-tourism/ https://www.airbnbcitizen.com/airbnb-shares-new-data-globall...
    - parthdesai 8y ago
      TIL that tourism didn't exist before AirBnB. It's not like Toronto is some scrub city that only saw tourists because of AirBnB.
      - conanbatt 8y ago
        All tourism raises rents. The less tourism, the lower the rents.
saemil 8y ago
Anyone else read the subject as Toronto has a lot of haunted hotels?
- ksaj 8y ago
  No. Maybe if it was a reddit post.
mtw 8y ago
Isn't this related to a bigger problem which is lack of affordable housing? Airbnb just exacerbates the problem. Many other cities are faced with the same issue, London, NY, Paris. It's a city planning issue that mayors and governments should tackle, not an Airbnb issue. If Airbnb leaves, it doesn't mean that everyone will magically find cheap rental units.
- helen___keller 8y ago
  Right, it's one of many factors contributing to the absurdly low vacancy rate (and resulting absurdly out-of-reach housing costs) Presumably addressing this issue could be a multi pronged approach, which may involve restrictions on airbnb. But i totally agree the city can't just ban airbnb and call it a day - that would be unproductive at best
  - philipov 8y ago
    high vacancy rate, or low occupancy rate
    - helen___keller 8y ago
      Vacancy rate for standard long-term rental units, is absurdly low in toronto (1.1%) A low vacancy rate generally means that rentals are a seller's market - offer a bad unit or a high price, or both, and you can easily find a tenant, because there's just so few places to rent. I believe a healthy vacancy rate for a city is in the 6-7 percent range. 1.1 percent is insanely low. But, it's not terribly surprising. The story of housing in the 21st century is that vacancy builds in the tiny manufacturing towns of yesteryear (much of the Midwest USA for example) while people move en masse to a few superstar cities that usually fail under overbearing regulations and zoning to build anywhere near enough units to match the incoming migration.
  - parthdesai 8y ago
    No, but cities should definitely make sure that entire town/neighbourhood don't become AirBnB neighbourhood. They should make sure that you can only AirBnB your primary residence unit, can't AirBnB for more than X number of days/year and allow property management to blacklist the building if the condo bylaw says so. But despite the typical SV hubris of caring for the world and community, that'll hurt AirBnB's growth numbers and thus they won't do that. Also, if you read the article, i live in the most affected neighbourhood of Spadina/Fort-York, and trust me if a hell on some Fridays and Saturdays. You'll see a group of 5-10 people from out of the city (could even be some 20 year olds from suburbs) rent a 1-2 bedroom unit, pre game, come home shit faced, sometimes puking in the elevator, destroying the lobby and hall ways, blasting music at 3 am, not giving a shit about people actually living in these condos.
Giorgi 8y ago
What? Who the hell calls Short-term rentals "ghost hotels"?

21 points by parthdesai 8y ago

parthdesai 8y ago

https://outline.com/mHDHEM https://outline.com/mHDHEM, if the article is pay walled.

scld 8y ago

All this means is that there's a demand for more housing, in one form or another.

NotSammyHagar 8y ago
I thought a big reason for Airbnb's success is they are large enough that they're now the go to site to find short-term housing. What's the non Airbnb site that you go to? They're successful just because everyone goes there.

skilled 8y ago

The more the merrier. If this brings down prices for apartment rentals then I am all for it. So many people are willing to leave their Airbnb apartments empty for months at a time only to cash in on an absurd "premium".

wolco 8y ago
It increases the prices as supply is reduced overall.

conanbatt 8y ago

If it only came to the idea of the Toronto government to ban tourism, it would achieve the same effect as reducing airbnb's.

b0bby_tabl3s 8y ago
LOL! That will never happen. Most who travel there are coming for the weed and sex. Even the cities website used to have a pic of lipstick covered lips.
parthdesai 8y ago
Absolutely not true, maybe look into the matter and data first before commenting?
- conanbatt 8y ago
  What data do you want, that Airbnb is used by tourists? There's plenty for it: https://www.airbnbcitizen.com/airbnb-shares-new-data-globally-and-starts-initiative-to-drive-healthy-tourism/ https://www.airbnbcitizen.com/airbnb-shares-new-data-globall...
  - parthdesai 8y ago
    TIL that tourism didn't exist before AirBnB. It's not like Toronto is some scrub city that only saw tourists because of AirBnB.
    - conanbatt 8y ago
      All tourism raises rents. The less tourism, the lower the rents.

saemil 8y ago

Anyone else read the subject as Toronto has a lot of haunted hotels?

ksaj 8y ago
No. Maybe if it was a reddit post.

mtw 8y ago

Isn't this related to a bigger problem which is lack of affordable housing? Airbnb just exacerbates the problem. Many other cities are faced with the same issue, London, NY, Paris. It's a city planning issue that mayors and governments should tackle, not an Airbnb issue. If Airbnb leaves, it doesn't mean that everyone will magically find cheap rental units.

helen___keller 8y ago
Right, it's one of many factors contributing to the absurdly low vacancy rate (and resulting absurdly out-of-reach housing costs) Presumably addressing this issue could be a multi pronged approach, which may involve restrictions on airbnb. But i totally agree the city can't just ban airbnb and call it a day - that would be unproductive at best
- philipov 8y ago
  high vacancy rate, or low occupancy rate
  - helen___keller 8y ago
    Vacancy rate for standard long-term rental units, is absurdly low in toronto (1.1%) A low vacancy rate generally means that rentals are a seller's market - offer a bad unit or a high price, or both, and you can easily find a tenant, because there's just so few places to rent. I believe a healthy vacancy rate for a city is in the 6-7 percent range. 1.1 percent is insanely low. But, it's not terribly surprising. The story of housing in the 21st century is that vacancy builds in the tiny manufacturing towns of yesteryear (much of the Midwest USA for example) while people move en masse to a few superstar cities that usually fail under overbearing regulations and zoning to build anywhere near enough units to match the incoming migration.
- parthdesai 8y ago
  No, but cities should definitely make sure that entire town/neighbourhood don't become AirBnB neighbourhood. They should make sure that you can only AirBnB your primary residence unit, can't AirBnB for more than X number of days/year and allow property management to blacklist the building if the condo bylaw says so. But despite the typical SV hubris of caring for the world and community, that'll hurt AirBnB's growth numbers and thus they won't do that. Also, if you read the article, i live in the most affected neighbourhood of Spadina/Fort-York, and trust me if a hell on some Fridays and Saturdays. You'll see a group of 5-10 people from out of the city (could even be some 20 year olds from suburbs) rent a 1-2 bedroom unit, pre game, come home shit faced, sometimes puking in the elevator, destroying the lobby and hall ways, blasting music at 3 am, not giving a shit about people actually living in these condos.

Giorgi 8y ago

What? Who the hell calls Short-term rentals "ghost hotels"?