4 ms·

While the sentence of 26 months does seem extreme, never underestimate the lengths a scorned online community member will go to get retribution for being banned

While the sentence of 26 months does seem extreme, never underestimate the lengths a scorned online community member will go to get retribution for being banned or moderated. I own and operate a community that specializes in radio communications technologies, and I've actually had an instance of a member who we banned who threatened me personally and my family by trawling through property tax records to find out personal info, photoshopped pictures of my family, and registered tons of accounts through proxies and VPNs to harass our staff and moderators. Because of the detailed, targeted threats (like specifically threatening my wife and children by name) I went to the police. They ended up simply calling him on the phone to try to get to the bottom of the entire saga and he strongly apologized (through the police, they told him to not even think about contacting me). It was as if he finally realized the severity of his actions, only when law enforcement got involved. But it was actually pretty scary because of the targeted detailed aspects of how he exacted retribution. I think the vast majority of these types of issues are mental health related. But it seems like an especially acute problem for niche businesses and communities. The time and effort it caused me to exert made me so upset that I would have cheered a 26 month prison sentence just to make an example out of the guy, but law enforcement encouraged me to just move on.

DoubleGlazing 8y ago
I experienced something very similar. I was living in the UK and was asked to help admin a local forum. It only had around 3000 users, but it was very active. There was one fellow who kept posting long rambling rants about all sorts, conspiracy theories, espousing racist views, taking pleasure in mocking members who lost a relative etc. After repeatedly banning him we got a plugin to make him invisible to everyone bar mods and admins. He kept posting his long angry rants for a year before he realised what was going on. To say he was upset would be an understatement. I'm sure he tried to track down the site owners and admins, but we were very careful to maintain anonymity. So he went after regular members, he managed to figure out where some of them lived and worked by analysing their posting. One day he posted the names and address of a lot of the forums top posters. Of course at that point the police were called in. The guy was tracked down via his IP address, he made no attempt to hide his activities. We did send occasional abuse reports to his ISP before this happened and they were always ignored. He was charged with harassment and ended up with 100 hours of community service and a £150 fine. A pitifully small punishment given the fear he caused and that he did not show any remorse. If anything he seemed annoyed that he got caught. Apparently, in his first Police interview he argued that he was merely exercising his right to freedom of speech and was surprised when the police told him that such a right did not exist in the UK. Some people have anger issues, some people have real mean streaks. Forums attract these kind and can encourage them to act their worst. If someone goes too far and starts to make people feel personally threatened or tries to ruin a business then I don't see the problem with them facing a severe penalty when caught.
- mannykannot 8y ago
  The "freedom of speech" excuse bugs me when it is used in cases like this. Regardless of what the law is in various jurisdictions, the principle of free speech does not entitle anyone to an audience, and certainly not to harass people in order to hijack one.
  - Zaak 8y ago
    > the principle of free speech does not entitle anyone to an audience Indeed. My response in such situations is, you can say what you want, but you'll need to get your own printing press, you can't use mine. He had no leg to stand on, using someone else's resources to say things they didn't want said.
- foldr 8y ago
  >Apparently, in his first Police interview he argued that he was merely exercising his right to freedom of speech and was surprised when the police told him that such a right did not exist in the UK. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_10_of_the_European_Convention_on_Human_Rights https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_10_of_the_European_Con... Article 10 isn't as robust as the First Amendment, but it's not really accurate to say that there is no right to freedom of speech in the UK. Of course, harassing people isn't protected by either.
  - DoubleGlazing 8y ago
    Article 10 is a bit weak as fundamental rights go. Part 1 implies that you can say what you want. Part 2 then cancels that out with the proviso that national law can override your part 1 rights. That's not so much a right, more of a "defined allowance".
    - foldr 8y ago
      There are restrictions on the First Amendment too (e.g. obscenity). And Part 2 doesn't mean that any arbitrary national law can override your part 1 rights. You can see a list of Article 10 cases relating to the UK here: https://inforrm.org/2013/05/10/the-united-kingdom-in-strasbourg-all-the-article-10-judgments/ https://inforrm.org/2013/05/10/the-united-kingdom-in-strasbo...
pavel_lishin 8y ago
> I think the vast majority of these types of issues are mental health related. My experience was nowhere near as bad as yours, but I have gotten 4am texts demanding that a ban be lifted. I don't think it's mental health; I think it's just a disconnect from the fact that the glowing dots on the screen have real people behind them. We can call it a mental health issue, but if that's the case, it's spread across our whole society .
- TheCondor 8y ago
  That disconnect is a mental health issue, there are names for it, it might be more common than we like to admit but it’s still a thing. Could you share some? How does a forum get so sideways that someone has to be banned and they end up sending late night texts about it? Is it the badges and post counts and stuff?
  - pavel_lishin 8y ago
    It seems boring and banal to me, but it was mostly a college-aged and younger crowd who had a lot of time, and many of whom had less social skills than maybe we should have. After awhile, it really felt like a community. We shared a lot of online experiences, there were memes (weren't called that then, yet) being tossed around. Imagine all the silly bullshit you got up to in high school because there was a lot of time to kill, and a lot of people to kill it with. Now imagine that one of your friends from that group unilaterally said, "you can't come to school anymore". You suddenly lost a lot of your friends, a large part of your social circle is now missing, and there's one person at whose feet you can lay the blame. That's what's going through their head, and that's why they thought it was acceptable to harass me to get back into the forum. (This is why, elsewhere, I'm very pro codes-of-conduct. It's tiring having to try to explain to someone exactly why they're behaving like a tactless jackass. It's tiring having to be a parent to someone who's acting like they're 8 years old. It's easier to just point to rule 4.5 ("don't call people racial slurs") and say, "you fucked up, you're gone, this discussion is over" and block them on every form of social media.)
booleandilemma 8y ago
Wow, never underestimate how crazy people can be!

DoubleGlazing 8y ago

I experienced something very similar. I was living in the UK and was asked to help admin a local forum. It only had around 3000 users, but it was very active. There was one fellow who kept posting long rambling rants about all sorts, conspiracy theories, espousing racist views, taking pleasure in mocking members who lost a relative etc. After repeatedly banning him we got a plugin to make him invisible to everyone bar mods and admins. He kept posting his long angry rants for a year before he realised what was going on. To say he was upset would be an understatement. I'm sure he tried to track down the site owners and admins, but we were very careful to maintain anonymity. So he went after regular members, he managed to figure out where some of them lived and worked by analysing their posting. One day he posted the names and address of a lot of the forums top posters. Of course at that point the police were called in. The guy was tracked down via his IP address, he made no attempt to hide his activities. We did send occasional abuse reports to his ISP before this happened and they were always ignored. He was charged with harassment and ended up with 100 hours of community service and a £150 fine. A pitifully small punishment given the fear he caused and that he did not show any remorse. If anything he seemed annoyed that he got caught. Apparently, in his first Police interview he argued that he was merely exercising his right to freedom of speech and was surprised when the police told him that such a right did not exist in the UK. Some people have anger issues, some people have real mean streaks. Forums attract these kind and can encourage them to act their worst. If someone goes too far and starts to make people feel personally threatened or tries to ruin a business then I don't see the problem with them facing a severe penalty when caught.

mannykannot 8y ago
The "freedom of speech" excuse bugs me when it is used in cases like this. Regardless of what the law is in various jurisdictions, the principle of free speech does not entitle anyone to an audience, and certainly not to harass people in order to hijack one.
- Zaak 8y ago
  > the principle of free speech does not entitle anyone to an audience Indeed. My response in such situations is, you can say what you want, but you'll need to get your own printing press, you can't use mine. He had no leg to stand on, using someone else's resources to say things they didn't want said.
foldr 8y ago
>Apparently, in his first Police interview he argued that he was merely exercising his right to freedom of speech and was surprised when the police told him that such a right did not exist in the UK. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_10_of_the_European_Convention_on_Human_Rights https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_10_of_the_European_Con... Article 10 isn't as robust as the First Amendment, but it's not really accurate to say that there is no right to freedom of speech in the UK. Of course, harassing people isn't protected by either.
- DoubleGlazing 8y ago
  Article 10 is a bit weak as fundamental rights go. Part 1 implies that you can say what you want. Part 2 then cancels that out with the proviso that national law can override your part 1 rights. That's not so much a right, more of a "defined allowance".
  - foldr 8y ago
    There are restrictions on the First Amendment too (e.g. obscenity). And Part 2 doesn't mean that any arbitrary national law can override your part 1 rights. You can see a list of Article 10 cases relating to the UK here: https://inforrm.org/2013/05/10/the-united-kingdom-in-strasbourg-all-the-article-10-judgments/ https://inforrm.org/2013/05/10/the-united-kingdom-in-strasbo...

pavel_lishin 8y ago

> I think the vast majority of these types of issues are mental health related. My experience was nowhere near as bad as yours, but I have gotten 4am texts demanding that a ban be lifted. I don't think it's mental health; I think it's just a disconnect from the fact that the glowing dots on the screen have real people behind them. We can call it a mental health issue, but if that's the case, it's spread across our whole society .

TheCondor 8y ago
That disconnect is a mental health issue, there are names for it, it might be more common than we like to admit but it’s still a thing. Could you share some? How does a forum get so sideways that someone has to be banned and they end up sending late night texts about it? Is it the badges and post counts and stuff?
- pavel_lishin 8y ago
  It seems boring and banal to me, but it was mostly a college-aged and younger crowd who had a lot of time, and many of whom had less social skills than maybe we should have. After awhile, it really felt like a community. We shared a lot of online experiences, there were memes (weren't called that then, yet) being tossed around. Imagine all the silly bullshit you got up to in high school because there was a lot of time to kill, and a lot of people to kill it with. Now imagine that one of your friends from that group unilaterally said, "you can't come to school anymore". You suddenly lost a lot of your friends, a large part of your social circle is now missing, and there's one person at whose feet you can lay the blame. That's what's going through their head, and that's why they thought it was acceptable to harass me to get back into the forum. (This is why, elsewhere, I'm very pro codes-of-conduct. It's tiring having to try to explain to someone exactly why they're behaving like a tactless jackass. It's tiring having to be a parent to someone who's acting like they're 8 years old. It's easier to just point to rule 4.5 ("don't call people racial slurs") and say, "you fucked up, you're gone, this discussion is over" and block them on every form of social media.)

booleandilemma 8y ago

Wow, never underestimate how crazy people can be!