5 ms·

I was going to suggest that raising children was something enjoyable that resisted monetization. But upon further reflection, I would be wrong.

beobab 7y ago
I was going to make a joke about children being ideal chimney sweeps, but I thought I probably shouldn't. I'd appreciate it if you pretended I did, and it was really funny and witty, and made you do a sensible chuckle, and it was tastefully done, so you weren't offended in any way. Thanks.
- jplayer01 7y ago
  There are plenty of places today where children are still your social safety net, especially as you go into retirement. We just happen to live in incredibly well-off countries where this need and motivation has largely disappeared (which shows to some degree in our reproductive rates). There's nothing wrong with it - practical reality trumps blind ideals every time.
  - lotsofpulp 7y ago
    Even in rich countries, properly equipped children can provide resources that are worth millions if not more. You can't buy the loyalty that a child would have, and a tribe of highly educated, resourceful children is quite a force to have in your old age. In my experience, the families that had 3 to 5 children, where at least 2 or 3 of them supported each other went far further than others. They save money by being each other's insurance, are able to share resources and knowledge, help each other in rearing their own set of children, and the implicit trust is something that can't be bought. Of course, it can all go sideways too, but that's applicable in any situation. But the upside is huge.
  - AlexTWithBeard 7y ago
    Being quite cynical, I'm sure by the time I have to retire the government will find a way to f*ck me up. Children are indeed a backup plan.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- dsfyu404ed 7y ago
  >I was going to make a joke about children being ideal chimney sweeps, Their small hands are great for working on modern cars (especially the electrical connectors with tabs that are hard for sausage fingers to manipulate). When you're carrying something heavy they can make every door open automatically. They also make great confined space welders. All the energy they have makes them great for manual labor too. The manual labor has the side benefit of making them less picky eaters and better at sleeping. Kids are great for helping with all sorts of around the house projects too. Having a helper is an invaluable force multiplier. Edit: Why is this opinion not acceptable here? Are kids supposed to stare at a screen for every waking hour not consumed with school work?
  - tonyarkles 7y ago
    > They also make great confined space welders. Thank you for the chuckle! As a kid who grew up "helping" (often just learning, but occasionally actually contributing), I find your list pretty reasonable! I didn't, unfortunately, learn to weld until my early 30s.
Waterluvian 7y ago
Wrong in what way? I would wholly agree. I have two kids and it's the most fulfilling endeavour in my life by far. In my 20s I had a drive to become some expert well-known programmer. That all suddenly felt silly when my first was born. I think one of the greatest boons of parenthood, for me at least, is the complete and total conviction and faith that I'm doing something meaningful with my life. Before kids, I always had doubts that I was using my time here well. Before kids, I really didn't know what unwaivering faith felt like. It's really quite reassuring. It allows me to enjoy my career because my career is no longer the focus and the thing that I must get right. Life is fleeting.
- dagw 7y ago
  Don't extrapolate your unique and personal reactions to and experiences with parenting to the whole population. Raising children is one of the most unique personal things a person to experience, assuming your reaction to it is in any way the 'norm' seems extremely presumptuous.
  - iagooar 7y ago
    He does not do it, as far as I understand his post correctly. Funnily, I quite often find reactions such as yours coming from people who oppose the idea of having children. A parent telling you how happy they are having the kids IS NOT telling you that you should do the same. They're just enjoying it and exposing it as a maybe these days forgotten way of realization as a human being.
    - dagw 7y ago
      As other people in this thread have already pointed out, lots of people have children either primarily or at least partially as a way to attempt to financially secure their future. The OP makes it sound like they're doing it wrong. PS. I am in no way opposed to the idea of having children.
- jplayer01 7y ago
  Because there are people and places today and plenty of historical contexts where children were and are investments into the parents' futures. Think of places where universal healthcare or pensions don't exist.
geff82 7y ago
Well, indeed raising my children reminds me every day about the fact that I care too much about money. I see them grow up, while I have to do "business" all the time. I really think about moving to a rather remote place where houses are cheaper (yet have good internet access) and then less concentrate on making money, but spending time with the kids, especially on weekends and evenings.
swalsh 7y ago
Children are extremely taxing on time. If both parents work, even more so. It's harder to go out (so now you have to cook most nights) the amount of laundry you have to do doubles or quadrouples. Then there's trying to teach your kids the skills they need to be competitive in a globalized society. Combined with a full time job, you have zero time left over for things you WANT to do, and more than likely you're leaving some things you HAVE to do on the table too. To me, side projects are probably a rent seeking activity. If I can find 20 minutes here, and there, and turn it into something that generates cash... maybe... just maybe... I can use that to buy some time.. the thing I cherish the most.
marcinzm 7y ago
There's indirect long-term monetization in the sense that when you're old they'll help you.
- kaptain 7y ago
  You're not wrong, but it's this kind of thinking that the author is referring to. When it comes to children, if the motivation to develop and cultivate comes from seeing them as a long-term retirement plan that can be dangerous if they fail to meet that expectation.

beobab 7y ago

I was going to make a joke about children being ideal chimney sweeps, but I thought I probably shouldn't. I'd appreciate it if you pretended I did, and it was really funny and witty, and made you do a sensible chuckle, and it was tastefully done, so you weren't offended in any way. Thanks.

jplayer01 7y ago
There are plenty of places today where children are still your social safety net, especially as you go into retirement. We just happen to live in incredibly well-off countries where this need and motivation has largely disappeared (which shows to some degree in our reproductive rates). There's nothing wrong with it - practical reality trumps blind ideals every time.
- lotsofpulp 7y ago
  Even in rich countries, properly equipped children can provide resources that are worth millions if not more. You can't buy the loyalty that a child would have, and a tribe of highly educated, resourceful children is quite a force to have in your old age. In my experience, the families that had 3 to 5 children, where at least 2 or 3 of them supported each other went far further than others. They save money by being each other's insurance, are able to share resources and knowledge, help each other in rearing their own set of children, and the implicit trust is something that can't be bought. Of course, it can all go sideways too, but that's applicable in any situation. But the upside is huge.
- AlexTWithBeard 7y ago
  Being quite cynical, I'm sure by the time I have to retire the government will find a way to f*ck me up. Children are indeed a backup plan.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
dsfyu404ed 7y ago
>I was going to make a joke about children being ideal chimney sweeps, Their small hands are great for working on modern cars (especially the electrical connectors with tabs that are hard for sausage fingers to manipulate). When you're carrying something heavy they can make every door open automatically. They also make great confined space welders. All the energy they have makes them great for manual labor too. The manual labor has the side benefit of making them less picky eaters and better at sleeping. Kids are great for helping with all sorts of around the house projects too. Having a helper is an invaluable force multiplier. Edit: Why is this opinion not acceptable here? Are kids supposed to stare at a screen for every waking hour not consumed with school work?
- tonyarkles 7y ago
  > They also make great confined space welders. Thank you for the chuckle! As a kid who grew up "helping" (often just learning, but occasionally actually contributing), I find your list pretty reasonable! I didn't, unfortunately, learn to weld until my early 30s.

Waterluvian 7y ago

Wrong in what way? I would wholly agree. I have two kids and it's the most fulfilling endeavour in my life by far. In my 20s I had a drive to become some expert well-known programmer. That all suddenly felt silly when my first was born. I think one of the greatest boons of parenthood, for me at least, is the complete and total conviction and faith that I'm doing something meaningful with my life. Before kids, I always had doubts that I was using my time here well. Before kids, I really didn't know what unwaivering faith felt like. It's really quite reassuring. It allows me to enjoy my career because my career is no longer the focus and the thing that I must get right. Life is fleeting.

dagw 7y ago
Don't extrapolate your unique and personal reactions to and experiences with parenting to the whole population. Raising children is one of the most unique personal things a person to experience, assuming your reaction to it is in any way the 'norm' seems extremely presumptuous.
- iagooar 7y ago
  He does not do it, as far as I understand his post correctly. Funnily, I quite often find reactions such as yours coming from people who oppose the idea of having children. A parent telling you how happy they are having the kids IS NOT telling you that you should do the same. They're just enjoying it and exposing it as a maybe these days forgotten way of realization as a human being.
  - dagw 7y ago
    As other people in this thread have already pointed out, lots of people have children either primarily or at least partially as a way to attempt to financially secure their future. The OP makes it sound like they're doing it wrong. PS. I am in no way opposed to the idea of having children.
jplayer01 7y ago
Because there are people and places today and plenty of historical contexts where children were and are investments into the parents' futures. Think of places where universal healthcare or pensions don't exist.

geff82 7y ago

Well, indeed raising my children reminds me every day about the fact that I care too much about money. I see them grow up, while I have to do "business" all the time. I really think about moving to a rather remote place where houses are cheaper (yet have good internet access) and then less concentrate on making money, but spending time with the kids, especially on weekends and evenings.

swalsh 7y ago

Children are extremely taxing on time. If both parents work, even more so. It's harder to go out (so now you have to cook most nights) the amount of laundry you have to do doubles or quadrouples. Then there's trying to teach your kids the skills they need to be competitive in a globalized society. Combined with a full time job, you have zero time left over for things you WANT to do, and more than likely you're leaving some things you HAVE to do on the table too. To me, side projects are probably a rent seeking activity. If I can find 20 minutes here, and there, and turn it into something that generates cash... maybe... just maybe... I can use that to buy some time.. the thing I cherish the most.

marcinzm 7y ago

There's indirect long-term monetization in the sense that when you're old they'll help you.

kaptain 7y ago
You're not wrong, but it's this kind of thinking that the author is referring to. When it comes to children, if the motivation to develop and cultivate comes from seeing them as a long-term retirement plan that can be dangerous if they fail to meet that expectation.