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How big does the penalty need for it to actually make avoiding it in the future a priority for Apple? Putative damages need to scale with the size of the defen

by nullc 8y ago

How big does the penalty need for it to actually make avoiding it in the future a priority for Apple? Putative damages need to scale with the size of the defendant or they're meaningless.

saagarjha 8y ago
As far as I can tell, this is strictly supposed to be compensation for hardship. The size of the entity that is causing the hardship doesn’t affect the amount of suffering. So why should the payout be different? (Otherwise I’d just seek to be wronged by the organization with the biggest pockets?)
- kuzehanka 8y ago
  If we keep letting a corporate entity get away with undesirable practices by merely slapping them on the wrist, we are actively signalling to them that they should continue to engage in those practices. The only way to stop a corporation from doing something undesirable is to make the punishment great enough that the undesirable act is a net financial loss to the corporation. I would personally fully support massive % of yearly revenue fines for anything to do with privacy.
  - saagarjha 8y ago
    Work on making it illegal, then, so that corporations can be properly fined instead of random citizens having to justify billions in damages.
    - kuzehanka 8y ago
      Just because something is illegal does not stop a corporation from doing it. If the financial penalty for an illegal act is less than the financial gain from carrying it out, it will be carried out. See: petrochemical pollution, bank money laundering, telcos selling customer data, etc. Legal or not, the discussion is whether a 1B punishment is appropriate. Yes, I think it is appropriate for an organisation with a reported quarterly revenue in the 90B range, maybe even on the low end.
      - saagarjha 8y ago
        By making something illegal, the government can go after the company by representing the collective will of the people it stands for. I think it’s much more reasonable to have billion dollar fines in that case.
    - salthound 8y ago
      I don't understand this. Work on making what illegal? Facial recognition? Or breach of duty? Or making mistakes? It seems to me that we already have the proper way of dealing with this situation. Have the company pay punitive/exemplary damages.
      - saagarjha 8y ago
        Actually, that brings up a good point: what exactly should the remedy in this case be? I don’t think it’s clear that Apple is even at fault here. It’s a pretty shaky case and I’d place more blame on the officers who arrested him without double-checking than an in-store camera.
- salthound 8y ago
  The law provides remedies: someone has been wronged, and the legal system provides recourse. The law also regulates conduct: the punishment acts as a deterrent, to avoid similar violations in the future. A negligible settlement won't act as a deterrent for an entity with deep pockets.
sarcasmOrTears 8y ago
I think corporal punishment along with money would be great as punishment when it comes to corporations/rich people. Maybe only for the next 5-6 years, just enough to clean around.

by nullc 8y ago

How big does the penalty need for it to actually make avoiding it in the future a priority for Apple? Putative damages need to scale with the size of the defendant or they're meaningless.

saagarjha 8y ago

As far as I can tell, this is strictly supposed to be compensation for hardship. The size of the entity that is causing the hardship doesn’t affect the amount of suffering. So why should the payout be different? (Otherwise I’d just seek to be wronged by the organization with the biggest pockets?)

kuzehanka 8y ago
If we keep letting a corporate entity get away with undesirable practices by merely slapping them on the wrist, we are actively signalling to them that they should continue to engage in those practices. The only way to stop a corporation from doing something undesirable is to make the punishment great enough that the undesirable act is a net financial loss to the corporation. I would personally fully support massive % of yearly revenue fines for anything to do with privacy.
- saagarjha 8y ago
  Work on making it illegal, then, so that corporations can be properly fined instead of random citizens having to justify billions in damages.
  - kuzehanka 8y ago
    Just because something is illegal does not stop a corporation from doing it. If the financial penalty for an illegal act is less than the financial gain from carrying it out, it will be carried out. See: petrochemical pollution, bank money laundering, telcos selling customer data, etc. Legal or not, the discussion is whether a 1B punishment is appropriate. Yes, I think it is appropriate for an organisation with a reported quarterly revenue in the 90B range, maybe even on the low end.
    - saagarjha 8y ago
      By making something illegal, the government can go after the company by representing the collective will of the people it stands for. I think it’s much more reasonable to have billion dollar fines in that case.
  - salthound 8y ago
    I don't understand this. Work on making what illegal? Facial recognition? Or breach of duty? Or making mistakes? It seems to me that we already have the proper way of dealing with this situation. Have the company pay punitive/exemplary damages.
    - saagarjha 8y ago
      Actually, that brings up a good point: what exactly should the remedy in this case be? I don’t think it’s clear that Apple is even at fault here. It’s a pretty shaky case and I’d place more blame on the officers who arrested him without double-checking than an in-store camera.
salthound 8y ago
The law provides remedies: someone has been wronged, and the legal system provides recourse. The law also regulates conduct: the punishment acts as a deterrent, to avoid similar violations in the future. A negligible settlement won't act as a deterrent for an entity with deep pockets.

sarcasmOrTears 8y ago

I think corporal punishment along with money would be great as punishment when it comes to corporations/rich people. Maybe only for the next 5-6 years, just enough to clean around.