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Getting arrested has a nonzero risk of death. What Apple did was insane, and they ought to be punished.

by mirimir 8y ago

saagarjha 8y ago
…this is a reductio ad absurdum. You have no idea what happened during this arrest.
- mirimir 8y ago
  OK, sure. But consider how reckless Apple was. Reportedly they had some store video showing thefts by someone with a particular facial feature hash. And I'm guessing that they also linked that hash to a non-photo ID. Which are easily counterfeited. So say they had stopped there, and called the police when someone with that hash walked into a store. That would be bad enough, given how unreliable facial recognition is. But they went further. They had this kid arrested, relying on doubly unreliable information. That's what's reckless, and why they should be punished. If for no other reason, to set a precedent. So in a way, the actual risk that the kid faced is irrelevant. What matters is what might have happened.
  - lotsofpulp 8y ago
    You can’t “have” someone arrested. The police chose to arrest someone, and it is their duty to determine if the information given to them constitutes a reason to arrest someone. Unless it was given to them in with the intent to arrest someone under false pretenses, I don’t see how anyone other than police are responsible.
    - mirimir 8y ago
      > The arrest warrant included a photo that didn’t resemble Bah, he said in a lawsuit filed Monday.[0] So sure, you could argue that the police screwed up. But it's also arguable that Apple could have googled his Facebook page, and discovered that it wasn't him. 0) https://www.financialexpress.com/industry/technology/tech-trouble-apple-face-recognition-blamed-by-teen-for-false-arrest/1556148/ https://www.financialexpress.com/industry/technology/tech-tr...
      - lotsofpulp 8y ago
        Yes, that is of course up to the courts as to how much Apple is responsible. But I would hold the police far more responsible than Apple for not doing their job.
      - soneil 8y ago
        Do you really think that's apple's job here? They made a police report, stating that someone did 'this', and used 'this ID'. That's it. An entirely factual report. It's not apple's job to investigate him, his background, his alibi, etc?
  - tomp 8y ago
    I don't agree with your interpretation of the story. Apple associated the criminal's face with the victim's ID. The police arrested the victim. The victim's face was never even in Apple's system! (If I read the article correctly.) The exact same thing would happen if Apple hadn't used Face Recognition software at all.
    - dpcx 8y ago
      This is the thing I've been struggling with in everyone else's comments. From what the article suggests, the victim never even appeared in the Apple store, but the thief came back in at some point, so the police went to the address that Apple had on file for the thief. Why is this Apple's problem, beyond them associating a face to an ID _that was given to them_?

Getting arrested has a nonzero risk of death. What Apple did was insane, and they ought to be punished.

saagarjha 8y ago

…this is a reductio ad absurdum. You have no idea what happened during this arrest.

mirimir 8y ago
OK, sure. But consider how reckless Apple was. Reportedly they had some store video showing thefts by someone with a particular facial feature hash. And I'm guessing that they also linked that hash to a non-photo ID. Which are easily counterfeited. So say they had stopped there, and called the police when someone with that hash walked into a store. That would be bad enough, given how unreliable facial recognition is. But they went further. They had this kid arrested, relying on doubly unreliable information. That's what's reckless, and why they should be punished. If for no other reason, to set a precedent. So in a way, the actual risk that the kid faced is irrelevant. What matters is what might have happened.
- lotsofpulp 8y ago
  You can’t “have” someone arrested. The police chose to arrest someone, and it is their duty to determine if the information given to them constitutes a reason to arrest someone. Unless it was given to them in with the intent to arrest someone under false pretenses, I don’t see how anyone other than police are responsible.
  - mirimir 8y ago
    > The arrest warrant included a photo that didn’t resemble Bah, he said in a lawsuit filed Monday.[0] So sure, you could argue that the police screwed up. But it's also arguable that Apple could have googled his Facebook page, and discovered that it wasn't him. 0) https://www.financialexpress.com/industry/technology/tech-trouble-apple-face-recognition-blamed-by-teen-for-false-arrest/1556148/ https://www.financialexpress.com/industry/technology/tech-tr...
    - lotsofpulp 8y ago
      Yes, that is of course up to the courts as to how much Apple is responsible. But I would hold the police far more responsible than Apple for not doing their job.
    - soneil 8y ago
      Do you really think that's apple's job here? They made a police report, stating that someone did 'this', and used 'this ID'. That's it. An entirely factual report. It's not apple's job to investigate him, his background, his alibi, etc?
- tomp 8y ago
  I don't agree with your interpretation of the story. Apple associated the criminal's face with the victim's ID. The police arrested the victim. The victim's face was never even in Apple's system! (If I read the article correctly.) The exact same thing would happen if Apple hadn't used Face Recognition software at all.
  - dpcx 8y ago
    This is the thing I've been struggling with in everyone else's comments. From what the article suggests, the victim never even appeared in the Apple store, but the thief came back in at some point, so the police went to the address that Apple had on file for the thief. Why is this Apple's problem, beyond them associating a face to an ID _that was given to them_?