7 ms·

My better half uses one, but after the birth of our first child she had to use pads for a while. This was the first time I got to buy them. They are insanely ex

by jaabe 7y ago

My better half uses one, but after the birth of our first child she had to use pads for a while. This was the first time I got to buy them. They are insanely expensive, it’s truly mind blowing that more women aren’t using the cup. I mean, I know it doesn’t work for everyone, but it’s frankly as though women have some sort of “life-tax” attached that we men don’t, with pads being so expensive by comparison. I don’t remember the prices exactly, but it’s the range of a year of cup coverage being cheaper than one pack of pads.

aaronbrethorst 7y ago
Notably there are also literally taxes attached to such things. Washington tried to make feminine hygiene products tax-free during this legislative cycle, but it died in committee. Hopefully it'll pass next year, but this is still crazy. https://crosscut.com/2019/02/wa-lawmakers-want-make-tampons-cheaper-cutting-pink-tax https://crosscut.com/2019/02/wa-lawmakers-want-make-tampons-...
- vixen99 7y ago
  It's inconsistent tax rates which are crazy. Isn't toilet tissue 'essential' in the same way? Should that be exempt from sales tax? In many EU countries foodstuffs (difficult to 'make do' in its absence) and pharmaceutical products attract VAT albeit at a reduced rate.
  - JauntyHatAngle 7y ago
    Perhaps I'm missing the point, but I think the concern is more that Women have to pay money for essential hygiene products than Men due to their gender - which can be seen as inequitable. Toilet paper is an essential for both genders.
    - tomp 7y ago
      Well, they don't need to. Maybe pads should be taxed more so that more women would use menstrual caps? Pads seem to be quite environmentally harmful as well, they produce a lot of non-recyclable waste (unlike toilet paper).
    - lixtra 7y ago
      What is the tax status of razor blades in your state?
      - robin_reala 7y ago
        Shaving is both not a necessity and something people of every gender do equally.
        gknoy 7y ago
        Razor blades are also substantially cheaper than feminine hygiene products. One number I saw was that the average woman spends $150 - $300 per year on pads. In contrast, I can spend an order of magnitude less on razor blades, as a pack of Harry's blades end up being something like $2/each, and that's basically about a dollar or two a month (or less).
    - rahoulb 7y ago
      I agree with your main point - it's the inequity that's the point. In the UK tampons and pads have VAT charged on them (as they count as a luxury); there is a campaign to remove this and it has been reduced to 5%, but it's still there (due to EU regulations I believe). As a side point, in many parts of the world, toilet paper is not an essential; it's regarded as a dirty and unclean western practice.
    - smileysteve 7y ago
      > Toilet paper is an essential for both genders. In walked the bidet.
    - tropo 7y ago
      None of that is essential. For menstruation, you can do free bleeding. For defecation, you can use a bidet, or go old-style with corn cobs. You can use an odd number of stones, as specified by Muhammad. The same goes for shampoo (don't need it), deodorant (don't need it), and many other things. What this all boils down to is a fear of having other people think you are weird, defective, dirty, gross, etc.
- tropdrop 7y ago
  For context: many places around the US will separate food, drugs, and medical appliances (considered essential for life) from all other goods, taxing the former at 2% and the latter at something like 8-10% - Chicago, for example [1]. This 2% category often includes candy, soda, Viagra... in 15 states there are no restrictions, as long as it is consumable as food. Goods in the latter category are considered "luxury," so what's mentioned here is the battle against the luxury tax for products that are essential to a female's life. Chicago, a small handful of cities and ten states have already eliminated this unfair burden on top of the average $18,000 spent on feminine hygiene over a lifetime [2]. But the most tragically comical story I've found about this is what happened in Utah - the all-male panel rejected eliminating the tax, citing that they would need to recoup those tax funds from other sales, and that it was "unfair to tax the whole population for something that only affects half of it." The representative sponsoring the bill keeps trying every year, and every year the all-male committee continues to say No to her... [1] https://accountingsolutionsltd.com/faqs/sales-tax-rate-chicago-illinois/ https://accountingsolutionsltd.com/faqs/sales-tax-rate-chica... [2] https://www.sapling.com/3308/the-amount-youve-probably-spend-on-feminine-products-might-shock-you https://www.sapling.com/3308/the-amount-youve-probably-spend...
  - Double_a_92 7y ago
    Wouldn't it be a better marketing tactic to propose that pads & co should be considered medical appliances?
  - jacquesm 7y ago
    > the all-male panel rejected eliminating the tax, citing that they would need to recoup those tax funds from other sales, and that it was "unfair to tax the whole population for something that only affects half of it." They should go have a chat with their moms.
franky47 7y ago
This "life tax" is hardly a surprise when most governments and boards of directors are made of mostly men, who have been taught not to ever speak about these issues (a taboo due to religious or social beliefs). Now if there's a way to make money, suddenly it becomes an attractive subject for some, but the liberation of women with reusable products (menstrual cup, washable pads and period pants) will always come second to potential wealth increase with single-use solutions, especially for someone who does now experience the "problem" in the first place. Worse than all that, the people in charge of pushing single-use products genuinely believe they are helping out women, when in reality we see cases of toxic shock syndrome due to chemicals in tampons, and the ecological impact of such single-use products. My wife has been using reusable solutions for a few years now, the cup and period pants being the most liberating according to her.
- shard972 7y ago
  I know right, my deodorant life tax is really weighing on me these days, can't wait till we unshake the bonds of oppression put on us young males by lynx.
  - franky47 7y ago
    The issue of advertising and marketing pressure towards a conforming image of what "young males" should be/look/smell like is a similar one to that of females. Not conforming to this image is often seen as a rebellious act, and depicted with shame for not following the holy rule of capitalism. Yet when such products are partly responsible for the destruction of our ecosystem (single-use products, greenhouse gas emissions from aerosol deodorants), it becomes a moral duty to rebel.
    - ghda 7y ago
      We all have our own “life taxes” to pay. Here’s one: since men are larger and headboard than women, we need more food just to stay alive! A few hundred extra calories a day over a lifetime, the cost must be substantial — almost certainly greater than the cost of tampons. Life is unfair to all of us, both sexes.
WA 7y ago
There are also menstrual sponges. They’re more comfortable than a cup, are made for reuse, but they’re a bit more work to clean than the menstrual cup.
- knitHacker 7y ago
  I can't imagine anything being more comfortable than the cup. If inserted correctly I can't feel it at all and the added comfort of no leaks or string like when I use to use tampons.
  - Freestyler_3 7y ago
    I think the sponge still had the blood tss, if I am not mistaken.
  - astura 7y ago
    Im a cup wearer and this is correct, a properly inserted, properly fitted cup can't be felt.
ben_w 7y ago
> They are insanely expensive, it’s truly mind blowing that more women aren’t using the cup. I mean, I know it doesn’t work for everyone, but it’s frankly as though women have some sort of “life-tax” attached that we men don’t, with pads being so expensive by comparison. My partner introduced me to them, and when I saw how expensive they were I immediately wondered how much it would cost to 3D print moulds for them so that entrepreneurial Kenyans could mass produce them as a cottage industry. I only got as far as a first print of a positive before someone pointed me to (I think) an Alibaba listing where they cost 5¢ each if you bought 1,000 at a time. I can’t find them quite so cheap any more, but I have just found them at €0.18 each. Perhaps a “buy one for yourself, get a hundred more for Kenya” marketing strategy could help? I have no idea how to do that without the annoying and condescending out-of-touch white-male saviour stereotype though.
- Double_a_92 7y ago
  > I have no idea how to do that without the annoying and condescending out-of-touch white-male saviour stereotype though. How would those pesky old white males bother you with your project? The product will mostly be bought by women, so they are the customers that you need to convince of the good cause. If you need to start a business and set up some webshop and organize marketing campains you can perfectly do that as a woman, with or without the help of other women if you prefer them. Stop blaming men for you own insecurities!
  - ben_w 7y ago
    > How would those pesky old white males bother you with your project? By being me. I have enough self awareness and pay enough attention to know my own efforts, as well-meant as they are, can easily end up like xkcd.com/793
- patrickg_zill 7y ago
  You referring to the annoying and condescending out of touch white males, that built civilization and technology?
  - 7y ago
jazoom 7y ago
It seems my "life-tax" is needing to eat about twice as much as my wife. The extra food I eat costs more than pads. However, my wife prefers a cup, so that cost is gone. I'm still left with my dietary needs. Our weights are not that different and neither of us is overweight.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- massive-tea 7y ago
  It's amazing how the moment a post about women comes up on hacker news all logic goes out the window. Perfectly sensible comments based on simple, real-life experience like this one get flagged and downvoted. I think it's due to a very high proportion of male virgins combined with feminist moderators.
massive-tea 7y ago
> but it’s frankly as though women have some sort of “life-tax” attached that we men don’t Men require more calories throughout their lives, meaning higher food bills, and usually die sooner as a result of that. Men also contribute far more tax revenue on average than women anyway. It's silly to try to boil down something that's incredibly nuanced just based on one experience you've had.
- yazboo 7y ago
  What perceived slight are you defending us men against?
  - massive-tea 7y ago
    How are you able to post but not able to read? I'm not "defending men", I'm pointing out how absurd the comment above is. Care to actually tell me why I'm wrong?
  - reversecs 7y ago
    Doesn't sound like a defense as much as balancing. I think it's this over sympathizing/feeling sorry for women that I can get exhausted with. The op was feeling bad for women because they menstruate and cleanup isn't somehow free. Well duh, and why shouldn't it be? We all responsible for our hygiene and have to pay it with our own money. And if it shouldn't be free then why don't men get an extra check for consuming extra calories? The question is to demonstrate how ridiculous the idea is. The levels that people go to in order to sympathize with women are quite high and seem to be for the purpose of giving men a sense that they should feel bad or sorry for the condition of being a woman when really, if you want equality, you treat women like you treat men. You assume they are strong and they can handle the problem. Yes $7 a box by 9 boxes a year is definitely extra cost of living. But are we really going to make this one thing free or tax free just because it only affects women? It's such an oversensitivity to women and it should be considered offensive to them that anybody even considers that kind of special treatment.

by jaabe 7y ago

aaronbrethorst 7y ago

Notably there are also literally taxes attached to such things. Washington tried to make feminine hygiene products tax-free during this legislative cycle, but it died in committee. Hopefully it'll pass next year, but this is still crazy. https://crosscut.com/2019/02/wa-lawmakers-want-make-tampons-cheaper-cutting-pink-tax https://crosscut.com/2019/02/wa-lawmakers-want-make-tampons-...

vixen99 7y ago
It's inconsistent tax rates which are crazy. Isn't toilet tissue 'essential' in the same way? Should that be exempt from sales tax? In many EU countries foodstuffs (difficult to 'make do' in its absence) and pharmaceutical products attract VAT albeit at a reduced rate.
- JauntyHatAngle 7y ago
  Perhaps I'm missing the point, but I think the concern is more that Women have to pay money for essential hygiene products than Men due to their gender - which can be seen as inequitable. Toilet paper is an essential for both genders.
  - tomp 7y ago
    Well, they don't need to. Maybe pads should be taxed more so that more women would use menstrual caps? Pads seem to be quite environmentally harmful as well, they produce a lot of non-recyclable waste (unlike toilet paper).
  - lixtra 7y ago
    What is the tax status of razor blades in your state?
    - robin_reala 7y ago
      Shaving is both not a necessity and something people of every gender do equally.
      - gknoy 7y ago
        Razor blades are also substantially cheaper than feminine hygiene products. One number I saw was that the average woman spends $150 - $300 per year on pads. In contrast, I can spend an order of magnitude less on razor blades, as a pack of Harry's blades end up being something like $2/each, and that's basically about a dollar or two a month (or less).
  - rahoulb 7y ago
    I agree with your main point - it's the inequity that's the point. In the UK tampons and pads have VAT charged on them (as they count as a luxury); there is a campaign to remove this and it has been reduced to 5%, but it's still there (due to EU regulations I believe). As a side point, in many parts of the world, toilet paper is not an essential; it's regarded as a dirty and unclean western practice.
  - smileysteve 7y ago
    > Toilet paper is an essential for both genders. In walked the bidet.
  - tropo 7y ago
    None of that is essential. For menstruation, you can do free bleeding. For defecation, you can use a bidet, or go old-style with corn cobs. You can use an odd number of stones, as specified by Muhammad. The same goes for shampoo (don't need it), deodorant (don't need it), and many other things. What this all boils down to is a fear of having other people think you are weird, defective, dirty, gross, etc.
tropdrop 7y ago
For context: many places around the US will separate food, drugs, and medical appliances (considered essential for life) from all other goods, taxing the former at 2% and the latter at something like 8-10% - Chicago, for example [1]. This 2% category often includes candy, soda, Viagra... in 15 states there are no restrictions, as long as it is consumable as food. Goods in the latter category are considered "luxury," so what's mentioned here is the battle against the luxury tax for products that are essential to a female's life. Chicago, a small handful of cities and ten states have already eliminated this unfair burden on top of the average $18,000 spent on feminine hygiene over a lifetime [2]. But the most tragically comical story I've found about this is what happened in Utah - the all-male panel rejected eliminating the tax, citing that they would need to recoup those tax funds from other sales, and that it was "unfair to tax the whole population for something that only affects half of it." The representative sponsoring the bill keeps trying every year, and every year the all-male committee continues to say No to her... [1] https://accountingsolutionsltd.com/faqs/sales-tax-rate-chicago-illinois/ https://accountingsolutionsltd.com/faqs/sales-tax-rate-chica... [2] https://www.sapling.com/3308/the-amount-youve-probably-spend-on-feminine-products-might-shock-you https://www.sapling.com/3308/the-amount-youve-probably-spend...
- Double_a_92 7y ago
  Wouldn't it be a better marketing tactic to propose that pads & co should be considered medical appliances?
- jacquesm 7y ago
  > the all-male panel rejected eliminating the tax, citing that they would need to recoup those tax funds from other sales, and that it was "unfair to tax the whole population for something that only affects half of it." They should go have a chat with their moms.

franky47 7y ago

This "life tax" is hardly a surprise when most governments and boards of directors are made of mostly men, who have been taught not to ever speak about these issues (a taboo due to religious or social beliefs). Now if there's a way to make money, suddenly it becomes an attractive subject for some, but the liberation of women with reusable products (menstrual cup, washable pads and period pants) will always come second to potential wealth increase with single-use solutions, especially for someone who does now experience the "problem" in the first place. Worse than all that, the people in charge of pushing single-use products genuinely believe they are helping out women, when in reality we see cases of toxic shock syndrome due to chemicals in tampons, and the ecological impact of such single-use products. My wife has been using reusable solutions for a few years now, the cup and period pants being the most liberating according to her.

shard972 7y ago
I know right, my deodorant life tax is really weighing on me these days, can't wait till we unshake the bonds of oppression put on us young males by lynx.
- franky47 7y ago
  The issue of advertising and marketing pressure towards a conforming image of what "young males" should be/look/smell like is a similar one to that of females. Not conforming to this image is often seen as a rebellious act, and depicted with shame for not following the holy rule of capitalism. Yet when such products are partly responsible for the destruction of our ecosystem (single-use products, greenhouse gas emissions from aerosol deodorants), it becomes a moral duty to rebel.
  - ghda 7y ago
    We all have our own “life taxes” to pay. Here’s one: since men are larger and headboard than women, we need more food just to stay alive! A few hundred extra calories a day over a lifetime, the cost must be substantial — almost certainly greater than the cost of tampons. Life is unfair to all of us, both sexes.

WA 7y ago

There are also menstrual sponges. They’re more comfortable than a cup, are made for reuse, but they’re a bit more work to clean than the menstrual cup.

knitHacker 7y ago
I can't imagine anything being more comfortable than the cup. If inserted correctly I can't feel it at all and the added comfort of no leaks or string like when I use to use tampons.
- Freestyler_3 7y ago
  I think the sponge still had the blood tss, if I am not mistaken.
- astura 7y ago
  Im a cup wearer and this is correct, a properly inserted, properly fitted cup can't be felt.

ben_w 7y ago

> They are insanely expensive, it’s truly mind blowing that more women aren’t using the cup. I mean, I know it doesn’t work for everyone, but it’s frankly as though women have some sort of “life-tax” attached that we men don’t, with pads being so expensive by comparison. My partner introduced me to them, and when I saw how expensive they were I immediately wondered how much it would cost to 3D print moulds for them so that entrepreneurial Kenyans could mass produce them as a cottage industry. I only got as far as a first print of a positive before someone pointed me to (I think) an Alibaba listing where they cost 5¢ each if you bought 1,000 at a time. I can’t find them quite so cheap any more, but I have just found them at €0.18 each. Perhaps a “buy one for yourself, get a hundred more for Kenya” marketing strategy could help? I have no idea how to do that without the annoying and condescending out-of-touch white-male saviour stereotype though.

Double_a_92 7y ago
> I have no idea how to do that without the annoying and condescending out-of-touch white-male saviour stereotype though. How would those pesky old white males bother you with your project? The product will mostly be bought by women, so they are the customers that you need to convince of the good cause. If you need to start a business and set up some webshop and organize marketing campains you can perfectly do that as a woman, with or without the help of other women if you prefer them. Stop blaming men for you own insecurities!
- ben_w 7y ago
  > How would those pesky old white males bother you with your project? By being me. I have enough self awareness and pay enough attention to know my own efforts, as well-meant as they are, can easily end up like xkcd.com/793
patrickg_zill 7y ago
You referring to the annoying and condescending out of touch white males, that built civilization and technology?
- 7y ago

jazoom 7y ago

It seems my "life-tax" is needing to eat about twice as much as my wife. The extra food I eat costs more than pads. However, my wife prefers a cup, so that cost is gone. I'm still left with my dietary needs. Our weights are not that different and neither of us is overweight.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
massive-tea 7y ago
It's amazing how the moment a post about women comes up on hacker news all logic goes out the window. Perfectly sensible comments based on simple, real-life experience like this one get flagged and downvoted. I think it's due to a very high proportion of male virgins combined with feminist moderators.

massive-tea 7y ago

> but it’s frankly as though women have some sort of “life-tax” attached that we men don’t Men require more calories throughout their lives, meaning higher food bills, and usually die sooner as a result of that. Men also contribute far more tax revenue on average than women anyway. It's silly to try to boil down something that's incredibly nuanced just based on one experience you've had.

yazboo 7y ago
What perceived slight are you defending us men against?
- massive-tea 7y ago
  How are you able to post but not able to read? I'm not "defending men", I'm pointing out how absurd the comment above is. Care to actually tell me why I'm wrong?
- reversecs 7y ago
  Doesn't sound like a defense as much as balancing. I think it's this over sympathizing/feeling sorry for women that I can get exhausted with. The op was feeling bad for women because they menstruate and cleanup isn't somehow free. Well duh, and why shouldn't it be? We all responsible for our hygiene and have to pay it with our own money. And if it shouldn't be free then why don't men get an extra check for consuming extra calories? The question is to demonstrate how ridiculous the idea is. The levels that people go to in order to sympathize with women are quite high and seem to be for the purpose of giving men a sense that they should feel bad or sorry for the condition of being a woman when really, if you want equality, you treat women like you treat men. You assume they are strong and they can handle the problem. Yes $7 a box by 9 boxes a year is definitely extra cost of living. But are we really going to make this one thing free or tax free just because it only affects women? It's such an oversensitivity to women and it should be considered offensive to them that anybody even considers that kind of special treatment.