18 ms·

The discussion in this thread shows how blind people are about China's development. They are pointing fingers to the Chinese government partly because they simp

The discussion in this thread shows how blind people are about China's development. They are pointing fingers to the Chinese government partly because they simply cannot imagine how much better the China competitors are. The US do have some advantages in the IT industry, but that advantage is getting slimmer and slimmer. In fact, in so many ways, people in China are enjoying much better services from the internet companies than people in the US. But people in the US simply cannot see it, and cannot believe it. For ordinary people, I don't blame them. But most of people on HN are from this industry, and they are the same! This just makes me speechless.

luckydata 7y ago
Or maybe we just don't agree.
Cookingboy 7y ago
Seriously, Alibaba's e-commerce side operates at a scale that makes Amazon's entire North America (if not global) operation look like a 7/11 store hosted on Geocities. Last year on Single Day alone, Alibaba handled over $30B in orders with 24 hours, and more impressively those are spread over 1,000,000,000 separate deliveries orders. It means it handled the ordering and payment processing of 11,574 orders per second, and then fulfilled and delivered those ONE BILLION orders within the next 48 hours. Can you even imagine being an Alibaba warehouse worker during that couple days?
- teknologist 7y ago
  Would not go as far as to say "delivered" in 48 hours. Shipping can be relatively slow during those promotional days and the app even shows delay warnings on the cart screen / checkout.
  - Cookingboy 7y ago
    >Shipping can be quite slow True, but remember "slow" means something quite different in China where same/next day delivery is very often expected in top tier big cities. So 3-5 days delivery is definitely considered slow, and during these crazy period you may see the glacier speed of one week delivery time :)
  - PakG1 7y ago
    Received my Singles Day purchases next day from jd.com though. Don't think the volume affected them. Can't say for Alibaba.
- jmknoll 7y ago
  Definitely impressive, but certainly not delivered within 48 hours. I’m based in Shanghai and use Taobao/Tmall on a near-daily basis. There was a noticeable slowdown in order for at least a week or two on either side of the holiday. For regular items, if you order it right before the holiday, you may not get it for a couple of weeks in some cases. Doesn’t take anything away from what Alibaba is doing. It’s a huge spike over their normal business operations. I would be surprised if it didn’t cause a disruption of some sort.
- HeavenFox 7y ago
  While it is an impressive technological feat indeed, note that Alibaba doesn’t handle their own logistics. It’s more like eBay where the sellers are supposed to fulfill their own orders.
thetechlead 7y ago
Not just in e-commerce, the convenience living in China has far passed America, such as in mobile payment, food delivery, bike sharing, WeChat with its tremendously useful ecosystem, the subway system, high-speed rails, etc. Having lived in both China and America, I have to say the living standard in Chinese cities has passed America's in many ways and, more importantly, the speed of China building new facilities is at least 10x of the US. Many American believe there's a competition between two countries, but IMO the competition is already won. Chinese no longer see the US as a competitor in many areas - you rarely hear Chinese Internet companies learning something new from their American counterparts today, or people envying America for their way of living. It's the opposite I found worrisome, that America is losing confidence and becomes more insecure day by day.
- stone-monkey 7y ago
  Food delivery and bike sharing work well in China because of the scale of the cities and lower cost of living. When you have millions of people densely packed together, dumping a ton of bikes everywhere may be feasible. Even then, there's known issues, like how currently the biggest bike vendors are struggling for profitability. Food delivery is occasionally cheaper than buying at the store, due to VC style subsidies and lower cost of human labor. Delivery logistics are incredibly cool to me though. Real time location tracking for food/package deliveries is impressive. It'd be amazing to see something similar in the US.
  - profalseidol 7y ago
    One should try to find out why the cost of labor is lower than in the US.
    - teknologist 7y ago
      Those delivery guys in China are under incredible pressure.
  - thetechlead 7y ago
    Advanced logistics technology is a part of the New Retail happening in China that revolutionizes the customer experience in shopping and living daily life, though integrating online, offline services and logistics. It's more than just delivering your food or automated convenience stores. There are quite a few companies utilizing AI and big data to drive New Retail to the next level. Recommend some articles on this topic： https://www.bain.com/insights/embracing-chinas-new-retail/ https://www.bain.com/insights/embracing-chinas-new-retail/ https://www.alizila.com/new-retail/ https://www.alizila.com/new-retail/
manigandham 7y ago
The China competitors are better because they are actively helped by the government while foreign companies are not, and in this case actively suppressed. Competition only works when the market is fair. Perhaps Amazon could not make as good of an offering but their marketshare was 15% 10 years ago and China is a large, homogenous, and modernized population like the US which is perfect for Amazon's scale strategy. It's a hard sell to say that a trillion-dollar company does not have the resources and talent to do what the people in the next building can.
- ETHisso2017 7y ago
  Can you pinpoint what happened 10 years ago that resulted in Amazon losing share? Just because Amazon had money or has money doesn't mean it can't get disrupted. Otherwise, we'd all be buying from Sears and using AT&T for video calling.
- ericfrenkiel 7y ago
  Well said!
- tsukurimashou 7y ago
  As opposed to US companies that are certainly not helped in any way by the US government
  - manigandham 7y ago
    Sure, but definitely not to that extent, competitors are certainly not suppressed in the same way, and it's irrelevant to the discussion of why Amazon left China.
    - lexs 7y ago
      Bombadier literally was ended by the US government
      - manigandham 7y ago
Tsubasachan 7y ago
Yeah I visited a retail expert panel and they were talking about how in the 80s and 90s we looked at the US for trends and now China is the inspiration. Malls are out apps are in. Its almost scary how fast physical retail is dying.

luckydata 7y ago

Or maybe we just don't agree.

Cookingboy 7y ago

Seriously, Alibaba's e-commerce side operates at a scale that makes Amazon's entire North America (if not global) operation look like a 7/11 store hosted on Geocities. Last year on Single Day alone, Alibaba handled over $30B in orders with 24 hours, and more impressively those are spread over 1,000,000,000 separate deliveries orders. It means it handled the ordering and payment processing of 11,574 orders per second, and then fulfilled and delivered those ONE BILLION orders within the next 48 hours. Can you even imagine being an Alibaba warehouse worker during that couple days?

teknologist 7y ago
Would not go as far as to say "delivered" in 48 hours. Shipping can be relatively slow during those promotional days and the app even shows delay warnings on the cart screen / checkout.
- Cookingboy 7y ago
  >Shipping can be quite slow True, but remember "slow" means something quite different in China where same/next day delivery is very often expected in top tier big cities. So 3-5 days delivery is definitely considered slow, and during these crazy period you may see the glacier speed of one week delivery time :)
- PakG1 7y ago
  Received my Singles Day purchases next day from jd.com though. Don't think the volume affected them. Can't say for Alibaba.
jmknoll 7y ago
Definitely impressive, but certainly not delivered within 48 hours. I’m based in Shanghai and use Taobao/Tmall on a near-daily basis. There was a noticeable slowdown in order for at least a week or two on either side of the holiday. For regular items, if you order it right before the holiday, you may not get it for a couple of weeks in some cases. Doesn’t take anything away from what Alibaba is doing. It’s a huge spike over their normal business operations. I would be surprised if it didn’t cause a disruption of some sort.
HeavenFox 7y ago
While it is an impressive technological feat indeed, note that Alibaba doesn’t handle their own logistics. It’s more like eBay where the sellers are supposed to fulfill their own orders.

thetechlead 7y ago

Not just in e-commerce, the convenience living in China has far passed America, such as in mobile payment, food delivery, bike sharing, WeChat with its tremendously useful ecosystem, the subway system, high-speed rails, etc. Having lived in both China and America, I have to say the living standard in Chinese cities has passed America's in many ways and, more importantly, the speed of China building new facilities is at least 10x of the US. Many American believe there's a competition between two countries, but IMO the competition is already won. Chinese no longer see the US as a competitor in many areas - you rarely hear Chinese Internet companies learning something new from their American counterparts today, or people envying America for their way of living. It's the opposite I found worrisome, that America is losing confidence and becomes more insecure day by day.

stone-monkey 7y ago
Food delivery and bike sharing work well in China because of the scale of the cities and lower cost of living. When you have millions of people densely packed together, dumping a ton of bikes everywhere may be feasible. Even then, there's known issues, like how currently the biggest bike vendors are struggling for profitability. Food delivery is occasionally cheaper than buying at the store, due to VC style subsidies and lower cost of human labor. Delivery logistics are incredibly cool to me though. Real time location tracking for food/package deliveries is impressive. It'd be amazing to see something similar in the US.
- profalseidol 7y ago
  One should try to find out why the cost of labor is lower than in the US.
  - teknologist 7y ago
    Those delivery guys in China are under incredible pressure.
- thetechlead 7y ago
  Advanced logistics technology is a part of the New Retail happening in China that revolutionizes the customer experience in shopping and living daily life, though integrating online, offline services and logistics. It's more than just delivering your food or automated convenience stores. There are quite a few companies utilizing AI and big data to drive New Retail to the next level. Recommend some articles on this topic： https://www.bain.com/insights/embracing-chinas-new-retail/ https://www.bain.com/insights/embracing-chinas-new-retail/ https://www.alizila.com/new-retail/ https://www.alizila.com/new-retail/

manigandham 7y ago

The China competitors are better because they are actively helped by the government while foreign companies are not, and in this case actively suppressed. Competition only works when the market is fair. Perhaps Amazon could not make as good of an offering but their marketshare was 15% 10 years ago and China is a large, homogenous, and modernized population like the US which is perfect for Amazon's scale strategy. It's a hard sell to say that a trillion-dollar company does not have the resources and talent to do what the people in the next building can.

ETHisso2017 7y ago
Can you pinpoint what happened 10 years ago that resulted in Amazon losing share? Just because Amazon had money or has money doesn't mean it can't get disrupted. Otherwise, we'd all be buying from Sears and using AT&T for video calling.
ericfrenkiel 7y ago
Well said!
tsukurimashou 7y ago
As opposed to US companies that are certainly not helped in any way by the US government
- manigandham 7y ago
  Sure, but definitely not to that extent, competitors are certainly not suppressed in the same way, and it's irrelevant to the discussion of why Amazon left China.
  - lexs 7y ago
    Bombadier literally was ended by the US government
    - manigandham 7y ago

Tsubasachan 7y ago

Yeah I visited a retail expert panel and they were talking about how in the 80s and 90s we looked at the US for trends and now China is the inspiration. Malls are out apps are in. Its almost scary how fast physical retail is dying.