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Schneider Electric has a fairly large presence in the US...to what I can imagine is a huge benefit to both Europe and the US. Bosch, VW (let’s forget the scanda

Schneider Electric has a fairly large presence in the US...to what I can imagine is a huge benefit to both Europe and the US. Bosch, VW (let’s forget the scandal for a minute)... This goes beyond so much more than this particular article. The ‘western’ world is building a global civilization, and it seems like anyone is invited if you play by the rules. All of the China doves over the last 3 decades probably thought China would open up in that way and join the ‘developed’ world. I mean, fuck, Samsung is a huge compnent of the US economy, isn’t it? No, fuck China, and protectionism in general. They had (still have?) an invitation into the global civilization. It’s based on rules, that you have to follow. Of course there are criminals (hsbc, Libor, etc...) but overall it’s based on rules. This ‘realpolitik’ that has taken over, where ‘yeah of course nations act in their own best interest’ is not the complete picture, because at some point, a nation’s self interest is in cooperation.

echaozh 7y ago
Yeah, you play by rules, as long as it benefits you. Why does US so strongly advocate banning of Huawei devices, in the whole world? You say Huawei may have backdoors, but who don't? And Huawei may be the cleanest as it just "may", while the other competitors have a history of "do". The slogan "America First" doesn't sound so globalistic. And playing by rules is definitely not before America, which is first.
- manigandham 7y ago
  >> Huawei may have backdoors, but who don't? Apple doesn't. The American company.
  - skc 7y ago
    If the chinese government demands it, they will.
  - SZJX 7y ago
    They sell terminal, personal devices, which is not the same thing as building the 5G network. I think the Snowden revelations have made it perfectly clear that the western governments have been extensively monitoring network traffic/infrastructure since forever.
SZJX 7y ago
You still fail to see it, do you? Or maybe you're just too blinded by western mainstream propaganda, or even deliberately trumpeting the propaganda. I'm not sure. The whole precondition and reason of all those other countries being allowed to join this so-called "global civilization" and play by the so-called "rules" is because America remains the undisputed No.1 in this set of rules. America pretty much controls every aspect of the social fabric of its allies and they can't live without their big brother and protector. If you actually talk to some Japanese and Germans, or even French, you'd find out how much apathy and even antipathy towards this American hegemony they harbor. Particularly those who don't stand to benefit a lot from this situation. I recall particularly vividly a survey where the perceptions of Germans towards America are substantially worse than the perceptions the other way round. For CCP, the national independence and sovereignty is always the top priority, not least due to the humiliations and pain suffered in the hands of the former colonial power. Naturally, the consequence of the rise of of an independent China is that the American hegemony is under threat. And this is the reason why America has been so keen to act against China. This is understandable, as power transitions/struggles between two great powers have rarely occurred peacefully throughout the history. But at least you should recognize this reality instead of trumpeting the "global civilization", "democracy" propaganda nonsense. If the US actually cared the least bit about civilization and democracy, would it have sent agents to topple so many democratically elected regimes around the world, just to install their own dictator puppets and let the people suffer in eternal poverty? Would it have fought so many senseless wars and killed so many civilians? The aim of the US is to keep its hegemony and try to keep all the other nations in their "allocated" positions. It doesn't give a damn about whether the actual population of those nations improve their living conditions or anything like that. Similarly, the so-called "doves" are not really concerned about China's growth, but rather have expected China to occupy a preallocated place, where it would perform the roles that benefit the West, but not threaten their dominance in key industries and sectors at all. "How nice it would have been for China to remain a cheap manufacturing hub instead of trying to become a technological superpower." Too bad. China is not willing to play the ball and harbors greater ambitions than that, which it has every right to do. This is just how politics works. But at least see it and acknowledge it. If you can't even do that, you're not seeing through even the most simplistic mainstream propaganda, and that's tragic.
rossdavidh 7y ago
Well, there are certainly German companies operating in the US market, but: 1) Germany is a NATO ally, and the US has military bases in Germany, which is very different than the relations between China and the US 2) Germany does not have any possibility of dominating the US economy in the way that US companies could (if allowed) dominate the Chinese economy South Korea, like Germany, has a military alliance with the US, and the US has military bases in South Korea. Again, there is also no real danger of South Korea dominating the US economy on the scale that the US could (if allowed) dominate the Chinese one. Lastly, there are rules in the "global" economy, but those rules have mostly worked to the benefit of the countries that made them (see results in Latin America and Africa for what happens if you follow IMF and World Bank advice on opening up your economy). South Korea, Japan, and other "Asian tigers" mostly did NOT follow IMF/World Bank advice, and that's why it worked for them. China is basically doing the same thing Japan, South Korea, etc. did a couple decades ago. This doesn't mean we shouldn't care, or even respond, but we shouldn't be surprised, or expect something different in the future.

echaozh 7y ago

Yeah, you play by rules, as long as it benefits you. Why does US so strongly advocate banning of Huawei devices, in the whole world? You say Huawei may have backdoors, but who don't? And Huawei may be the cleanest as it just "may", while the other competitors have a history of "do". The slogan "America First" doesn't sound so globalistic. And playing by rules is definitely not before America, which is first.

manigandham 7y ago
>> Huawei may have backdoors, but who don't? Apple doesn't. The American company.
- skc 7y ago
  If the chinese government demands it, they will.
- SZJX 7y ago
  They sell terminal, personal devices, which is not the same thing as building the 5G network. I think the Snowden revelations have made it perfectly clear that the western governments have been extensively monitoring network traffic/infrastructure since forever.

SZJX 7y ago

You still fail to see it, do you? Or maybe you're just too blinded by western mainstream propaganda, or even deliberately trumpeting the propaganda. I'm not sure. The whole precondition and reason of all those other countries being allowed to join this so-called "global civilization" and play by the so-called "rules" is because America remains the undisputed No.1 in this set of rules. America pretty much controls every aspect of the social fabric of its allies and they can't live without their big brother and protector. If you actually talk to some Japanese and Germans, or even French, you'd find out how much apathy and even antipathy towards this American hegemony they harbor. Particularly those who don't stand to benefit a lot from this situation. I recall particularly vividly a survey where the perceptions of Germans towards America are substantially worse than the perceptions the other way round. For CCP, the national independence and sovereignty is always the top priority, not least due to the humiliations and pain suffered in the hands of the former colonial power. Naturally, the consequence of the rise of of an independent China is that the American hegemony is under threat. And this is the reason why America has been so keen to act against China. This is understandable, as power transitions/struggles between two great powers have rarely occurred peacefully throughout the history. But at least you should recognize this reality instead of trumpeting the "global civilization", "democracy" propaganda nonsense. If the US actually cared the least bit about civilization and democracy, would it have sent agents to topple so many democratically elected regimes around the world, just to install their own dictator puppets and let the people suffer in eternal poverty? Would it have fought so many senseless wars and killed so many civilians? The aim of the US is to keep its hegemony and try to keep all the other nations in their "allocated" positions. It doesn't give a damn about whether the actual population of those nations improve their living conditions or anything like that. Similarly, the so-called "doves" are not really concerned about China's growth, but rather have expected China to occupy a preallocated place, where it would perform the roles that benefit the West, but not threaten their dominance in key industries and sectors at all. "How nice it would have been for China to remain a cheap manufacturing hub instead of trying to become a technological superpower." Too bad. China is not willing to play the ball and harbors greater ambitions than that, which it has every right to do. This is just how politics works. But at least see it and acknowledge it. If you can't even do that, you're not seeing through even the most simplistic mainstream propaganda, and that's tragic.

rossdavidh 7y ago

Well, there are certainly German companies operating in the US market, but: 1) Germany is a NATO ally, and the US has military bases in Germany, which is very different than the relations between China and the US 2) Germany does not have any possibility of dominating the US economy in the way that US companies could (if allowed) dominate the Chinese economy South Korea, like Germany, has a military alliance with the US, and the US has military bases in South Korea. Again, there is also no real danger of South Korea dominating the US economy on the scale that the US could (if allowed) dominate the Chinese one. Lastly, there are rules in the "global" economy, but those rules have mostly worked to the benefit of the countries that made them (see results in Latin America and Africa for what happens if you follow IMF and World Bank advice on opening up your economy). South Korea, Japan, and other "Asian tigers" mostly did NOT follow IMF/World Bank advice, and that's why it worked for them. China is basically doing the same thing Japan, South Korea, etc. did a couple decades ago. This doesn't mean we shouldn't care, or even respond, but we shouldn't be surprised, or expect something different in the future.