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> China will not let a non-Chinese company ever gain top position in any sector. I don't know about this. Starbucks, McDonalds, KFC, Boeing, Apple and many oth

by mtw 7y ago

> China will not let a non-Chinese company ever gain top position in any sector. I don't know about this. Starbucks, McDonalds, KFC, Boeing, Apple and many others are ahead of their Chinese peers in China. It sounds like you're just using a blanket statement from reading various online articles without even how it's out there.

manigandham 7y ago
I've been there, worked with people there, have friends there building businesses for decades. Have you been out there? Companies are allowed to operate and grow, but they are tightly controlled. Apple has strong competition and has already trimmed prices and revenue targets. China just purchased 300 planes from Airbus instead of Boeing. McDonalds sold off 80% of its China operations to a Chinese stated-owned company years ago because it had trouble adapting its menu. KFC in China is owned by Yum China and headquartered in Shanghai. The world is not some free-market paradise. Territorial rules are everywhere. You'll encounter them just to do business in local counties within a state like New York. China's government has incredible power and control and has far more impact than you might think.
- ETHisso2017 7y ago
  >Apple has strong competition and has already trimmed prices and revenue targets. How is that the government's fault? >China just purchased 300 planes from Airbus instead of Boeing. Airbus is European >McDonalds sold off 80% of its China operations to a Chinese stated-owned company years ago because it had trouble adapting its menu. Again why is McDs inability to serve the Chinese palate the fault of the government? Consumer tastes in food are far more determined by culture than government. The rest of your statement is a non sequitur and strawman.
  - manigandham 7y ago
    Apple's Chinese competitors are helped by the government. China does not have an aviation manufacturer to compete directly (yet) but it ensures that neither Boeing or Airbus get a significant lead over each other in their controlling market. The parent poster claimed McDonalds was a successful example, however it only successful because it is now led by Chinese-state-owned agency so the real-estate (which is 99% of the value) is not foreign owned. Same with KFC. What is non-sequitur? That governments exist and have different rules for their businesses and citizens?
    - tanilama 7y ago
      1. Apple's competitor is cheaper...literally 40%-50% of its price, if you are talking about Xiaomi/Vivo/Oppo. Those are decent phones, not as premium but offer great experience. 2. > Boeing or Airbus get a significant lead over each other in their controlling market Isn't that the smart thing to do? Government ALWAYS chooses multiple vendors, DARPA wants to use AWS as its sole cloud computing provider and it gets SUED. What you seem to want to point out is, China has a very unique business environment and domestic market, where Western companies, if not going through intensive localization and adaptation, can't directly deploy its otherwise global operations in China easily. Yes, China needs to open more of its market, and under the current trade war, it needs to do that fast. However, that still won't mean that American companies should assumed be the winner, unless they have a competing edge, the locals just can't offer. I really don't see this is a much problem here. China/Japan/Korea, those Asian countries have dynamic domestic economy, and those companies are competitive in their homeland.
      - manigandham 7y ago
        The conversation has drifted. It's not about whether you see a problem. It's just how things are done in China where the government has total control over the market unlike many other countries and the US. Amazon couldn't compete because it was not allowed to compete.
        echaozh 7y ago
        So buying from Airbus instead of Boeing is an act now to allow Boeing to compete? So do you or do I have a wrong understanding of the word "compete"?
        manigandham 7y ago
        You're focusing on a word instead of the discussion. China allows foreign companies to compete and grow as long as they follow their rules and are in non-critical markets. Amazon was in a critical market and had domestic competition so it was pressured until it left. Aviation is a critical market so Boeing and Airbus are being carefully controlled to stay soft in favor of the upcoming (state-run) Comac C919 jetliners getting US certified. China is already selling these jets in Asia and they will be the used by all 3 major (state-run) Chinese airlines once ready, eventually pushing out Boeing and Airbus completely.
- matz1 7y ago
  So then what other US company such as KFC, Starbucks, Coach, Tiffany & Co., Estée Lauder and Michael Kors do differently so they allowed to compete and enjoy success in china ?
  - manigandham 7y ago
    As I've said, anyone can compete and enjoy success in China. However you must follow their rules and there will be subtle to overt controls placed on your operations and growth if you ever come near risking their political positions or existing monopolies.
    - matz1 7y ago
      Of course, like in anywhere else then.
  - intended 7y ago
    I have to point out that putting luxury brands in the same space as amazon is not an apples to apples comparison.
    - matz1 7y ago
      The context here is American company. They all are American company.
- mtw 7y ago
  The original statement was "China will not let a non-Chinese company ever gain top position in any sector." The fact is that no chinese company has a better position than Boeing. There are no chinese company with better position than Louis Vuitton, Chanel etc. There are no chinese companies with more profits than Apple. Those are just a few examples but they prove that that it is possible for a non-Chinese company to get top position in a sector. You should restrict your statement to "Non chinese company can get a top position in China but there will be tight control"
  - manigandham 7y ago
    Sure, given a lack of a domestic competitor, China will allow a foreign company to serve the market with tight control. They don't really care about some luxury goods brands but they are investing heavily in critical sectors like aviation. They have a long road ahead but Comac (state-owned manufacturer) is already selling commercial aircraft to other countries.
eastendguy 7y ago
Starbucks, McDonalds, KFC = unimportant. The world's best food is Chinese food anyway. China won this "war" hundreds of year ago Boeing = no chinese competitor available Apple = is feeling the pressure now
SamReidHughes 7y ago
Restaurants are not strategically important, and believe me, China would be very happy to have more home-grown airplane manufacturing expertise, but right now it makes sense for that talent to be directed towards the war industry.

by mtw 7y ago

manigandham 7y ago

I've been there, worked with people there, have friends there building businesses for decades. Have you been out there? Companies are allowed to operate and grow, but they are tightly controlled. Apple has strong competition and has already trimmed prices and revenue targets. China just purchased 300 planes from Airbus instead of Boeing. McDonalds sold off 80% of its China operations to a Chinese stated-owned company years ago because it had trouble adapting its menu. KFC in China is owned by Yum China and headquartered in Shanghai. The world is not some free-market paradise. Territorial rules are everywhere. You'll encounter them just to do business in local counties within a state like New York. China's government has incredible power and control and has far more impact than you might think.

ETHisso2017 7y ago
>Apple has strong competition and has already trimmed prices and revenue targets. How is that the government's fault? >China just purchased 300 planes from Airbus instead of Boeing. Airbus is European >McDonalds sold off 80% of its China operations to a Chinese stated-owned company years ago because it had trouble adapting its menu. Again why is McDs inability to serve the Chinese palate the fault of the government? Consumer tastes in food are far more determined by culture than government. The rest of your statement is a non sequitur and strawman.
- manigandham 7y ago
  Apple's Chinese competitors are helped by the government. China does not have an aviation manufacturer to compete directly (yet) but it ensures that neither Boeing or Airbus get a significant lead over each other in their controlling market. The parent poster claimed McDonalds was a successful example, however it only successful because it is now led by Chinese-state-owned agency so the real-estate (which is 99% of the value) is not foreign owned. Same with KFC. What is non-sequitur? That governments exist and have different rules for their businesses and citizens?
  - tanilama 7y ago
    1. Apple's competitor is cheaper...literally 40%-50% of its price, if you are talking about Xiaomi/Vivo/Oppo. Those are decent phones, not as premium but offer great experience. 2. > Boeing or Airbus get a significant lead over each other in their controlling market Isn't that the smart thing to do? Government ALWAYS chooses multiple vendors, DARPA wants to use AWS as its sole cloud computing provider and it gets SUED. What you seem to want to point out is, China has a very unique business environment and domestic market, where Western companies, if not going through intensive localization and adaptation, can't directly deploy its otherwise global operations in China easily. Yes, China needs to open more of its market, and under the current trade war, it needs to do that fast. However, that still won't mean that American companies should assumed be the winner, unless they have a competing edge, the locals just can't offer. I really don't see this is a much problem here. China/Japan/Korea, those Asian countries have dynamic domestic economy, and those companies are competitive in their homeland.
    - manigandham 7y ago
      The conversation has drifted. It's not about whether you see a problem. It's just how things are done in China where the government has total control over the market unlike many other countries and the US. Amazon couldn't compete because it was not allowed to compete.
      - echaozh 7y ago
        So buying from Airbus instead of Boeing is an act now to allow Boeing to compete? So do you or do I have a wrong understanding of the word "compete"?
        manigandham 7y ago
        You're focusing on a word instead of the discussion. China allows foreign companies to compete and grow as long as they follow their rules and are in non-critical markets. Amazon was in a critical market and had domestic competition so it was pressured until it left. Aviation is a critical market so Boeing and Airbus are being carefully controlled to stay soft in favor of the upcoming (state-run) Comac C919 jetliners getting US certified. China is already selling these jets in Asia and they will be the used by all 3 major (state-run) Chinese airlines once ready, eventually pushing out Boeing and Airbus completely.
matz1 7y ago
So then what other US company such as KFC, Starbucks, Coach, Tiffany & Co., Estée Lauder and Michael Kors do differently so they allowed to compete and enjoy success in china ?
- manigandham 7y ago
  As I've said, anyone can compete and enjoy success in China. However you must follow their rules and there will be subtle to overt controls placed on your operations and growth if you ever come near risking their political positions or existing monopolies.
  - matz1 7y ago
    Of course, like in anywhere else then.
- intended 7y ago
  I have to point out that putting luxury brands in the same space as amazon is not an apples to apples comparison.
  - matz1 7y ago
    The context here is American company. They all are American company.
mtw 7y ago
The original statement was "China will not let a non-Chinese company ever gain top position in any sector." The fact is that no chinese company has a better position than Boeing. There are no chinese company with better position than Louis Vuitton, Chanel etc. There are no chinese companies with more profits than Apple. Those are just a few examples but they prove that that it is possible for a non-Chinese company to get top position in a sector. You should restrict your statement to "Non chinese company can get a top position in China but there will be tight control"
- manigandham 7y ago
  Sure, given a lack of a domestic competitor, China will allow a foreign company to serve the market with tight control. They don't really care about some luxury goods brands but they are investing heavily in critical sectors like aviation. They have a long road ahead but Comac (state-owned manufacturer) is already selling commercial aircraft to other countries.

eastendguy 7y ago

Starbucks, McDonalds, KFC = unimportant. The world's best food is Chinese food anyway. China won this "war" hundreds of year ago Boeing = no chinese competitor available Apple = is feeling the pressure now

SamReidHughes 7y ago

Restaurants are not strategically important, and believe me, China would be very happy to have more home-grown airplane manufacturing expertise, but right now it makes sense for that talent to be directed towards the war industry.