4 ms·

The world in 1941 was a lot different. Back then, one would be forgiven for viewing history as either colonize or be colonized. This is not to defend Japan's a

The world in 1941 was a lot different. Back then, one would be forgiven for viewing history as either colonize or be colonized. This is not to defend Japan's actions, they did totally unjustified things in China, and as it turned out after Japan modernized, the west never posed a threat (as WWII would wipe out the Europeans ability to colonize and the US had no interest in it. The point being, now our perspective on history is very different. Colonization is a thing of the past. Respecting borders is by and large an unimpeachable norm across most of the world. I don't think Japan will feel the same pressures.

zipwitch 7y ago
Respecting borders has been an "unimpeachable norm" for how long, though? Since 1945, at most. That's not even 80 years - just long enough for us to forget why we made it verboten in the first place. I fear that Crimea and the Golan Heights will turn out to be the first drops in a devastating torrent.
- raiflip 7y ago
  True, it has not been very long. I can see nibbles starting to happen, but I highly doubt countries will start whole-sale take overs like during colonization. The US has shown over the last 70 years willingness to go to war to roll back conquests (like the iraq war in 1991). Even if China or Russia wanted to, the threat of nuclear war would contain all parties, like it did in the cold war.
- dogma1138 7y ago
  Cyprus has been occupied by Turkey a NATO member for how long now and you are worried about the Golan Heights? As far as Crimea goes the world is much better off with it than the alternative of forcing Russia’s hand. No one that can read a map ever thought Russia would give up their only warm water port, it’s also the reason why they went to Syria it’s their only port with access to the med that doesn’t have a NATO toll booth controlling it. Russia is a land locked country with all of its strategic assets and everything it cares about within strike distance of NATO FOBs. The US and NATO isn’t stupid they won’t be bogged down fighting over the rubbles of Stalingrad and they are much better logistically equipped to fight in winter than Napoleon. If a conventional conflict breaks out NATO tanks would find themselves on the outskirts of Moscow well before Russia can reach Warsaw yet alone Berlin. The buffer zone of the former Baltic and Soviet states has eroded and as much as the Baltics fear Russia if I was a Russian general I would be binge drinking and for a good reason just to stop my balls from shivering. Russia has no strategic depth, it’s land locked and thanks to improvements in air and missile defense also air and even space locked. Their geographical actions are about as predictable as playing risk with a 3 year old but just like that game the biggest risk is you have no idea if and when they’ll throw a tantrum and smash the board.
mattmanser 7y ago
Just to be clear, decolonisation was already happening in much of the world by 1941. Your comment seems to be suggesting WW2 was the trigger, but it had been underway for decades, WW2 merely sped it up.
- raiflip 7y ago
  Fair enough
  - mattmanser 7y ago
    It's just been the 100 year anniversary of the Jallianwala Bagh massacre in India, perpetrated by the British, which had its roots in India pressing for self-governance given that Canada and Australia had been granted independence and more autonomy. We have many dark periods in our history. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jallianwala_Bagh_massacre https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jallianwala_Bagh_massacre
mjevans 7y ago
How about Ukraine and Crimea? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Federation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Annexation_of_Crimea_... The slow move towards a more unified world under the UN is decaying into nationalism, I argue as a result of lowered prosperity in response to a combination of less third world regions to exploit and less population growth to extract profits from.
- dogma1138 7y ago
  There was never a move towards a world government under the UN the general assembly and much of its bodies became a laughing stock due to how the UN is structured.

zipwitch 7y ago

Respecting borders has been an "unimpeachable norm" for how long, though? Since 1945, at most. That's not even 80 years - just long enough for us to forget why we made it verboten in the first place. I fear that Crimea and the Golan Heights will turn out to be the first drops in a devastating torrent.

raiflip 7y ago
True, it has not been very long. I can see nibbles starting to happen, but I highly doubt countries will start whole-sale take overs like during colonization. The US has shown over the last 70 years willingness to go to war to roll back conquests (like the iraq war in 1991). Even if China or Russia wanted to, the threat of nuclear war would contain all parties, like it did in the cold war.
dogma1138 7y ago
Cyprus has been occupied by Turkey a NATO member for how long now and you are worried about the Golan Heights? As far as Crimea goes the world is much better off with it than the alternative of forcing Russia’s hand. No one that can read a map ever thought Russia would give up their only warm water port, it’s also the reason why they went to Syria it’s their only port with access to the med that doesn’t have a NATO toll booth controlling it. Russia is a land locked country with all of its strategic assets and everything it cares about within strike distance of NATO FOBs. The US and NATO isn’t stupid they won’t be bogged down fighting over the rubbles of Stalingrad and they are much better logistically equipped to fight in winter than Napoleon. If a conventional conflict breaks out NATO tanks would find themselves on the outskirts of Moscow well before Russia can reach Warsaw yet alone Berlin. The buffer zone of the former Baltic and Soviet states has eroded and as much as the Baltics fear Russia if I was a Russian general I would be binge drinking and for a good reason just to stop my balls from shivering. Russia has no strategic depth, it’s land locked and thanks to improvements in air and missile defense also air and even space locked. Their geographical actions are about as predictable as playing risk with a 3 year old but just like that game the biggest risk is you have no idea if and when they’ll throw a tantrum and smash the board.

mattmanser 7y ago

Just to be clear, decolonisation was already happening in much of the world by 1941. Your comment seems to be suggesting WW2 was the trigger, but it had been underway for decades, WW2 merely sped it up.

raiflip 7y ago
Fair enough
- mattmanser 7y ago
  It's just been the 100 year anniversary of the Jallianwala Bagh massacre in India, perpetrated by the British, which had its roots in India pressing for self-governance given that Canada and Australia had been granted independence and more autonomy. We have many dark periods in our history. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jallianwala_Bagh_massacre https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jallianwala_Bagh_massacre

mjevans 7y ago

How about Ukraine and Crimea? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Federation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Annexation_of_Crimea_... The slow move towards a more unified world under the UN is decaying into nationalism, I argue as a result of lowered prosperity in response to a combination of less third world regions to exploit and less population growth to extract profits from.

dogma1138 7y ago
There was never a move towards a world government under the UN the general assembly and much of its bodies became a laughing stock due to how the UN is structured.