6 ms·

There are really only two: the MBP and the ThinkPad.

by tx 18y ago

xenoterracide 18y ago
Thinkpad++ I do believe some models come with linux preinstalled. I believe thinkpad is one of the few laptops left that has what's called a stick? you know the little nub on the keyboard that you can use instead of a touch pad, and in reality it's way better than a touch pad. god I hate touch pads. I wish I had bought a thinkpad.
- Prrometheus 18y ago
  I call it the nipple. I prefer the touchpad. It's quicker and more precise.
  - blang 18y ago
    I refer to it as the pencil eraser. Once you get used to it, you realize it has the more control than the touchpad. Its main benefit, for me, is that you never have to move your hands out of typing position.
    - mattmaroon 18y ago
      Agreed. I haven't had the awesomeness of a dual touch touchpad, but I've had both normal ones and "the nub", and the latter is vastly preferable.
    - Prrometheus 18y ago
      Try using it with a sniper rifle. You'll change your tune.
  - there 18y ago
    http://xkcd.com/243/ http://xkcd.com/243/
  - xenoterracide 18y ago
    the only thing that was quicker 'maybe' about the touchpad was speed of learning, and ease of use. The 'nipple' is much faster and more precise if you invest more time in it. much like linux ;).
- mikeryan 18y ago
  The new MBPs (and MacBooks?) have a two finger touchpad interface that I've found makes a huge difference in its usability - with one finger down already controlling the mouse a second finger essentially works as a mousewheel. I can use my MBP's touchpad fine but can't stand having to use my work dell laptops w/o that feature.
  - notauser 18y ago
    Obviously it didn't improve usability enough to stop you posting this three times :) My MacBook Pro is my second Apple laptop (the first was a G4 powerbook) and it is going to be the last unless things change rapidly before it goes u/s. - The keyboard is ok, but the metal finish is slippery. - The large track pad forces typing with wrists at odd angles. - OS X is horrible (all my applications are Linux native so work oddly on OS X, plus no focus on mouse being my biggest two complaints - the rest are subjective/personal). - No region crack for the DVD player, which is unacceptable for travel. Doesn't even work with VLC. On the plus side the build quality is superb, the screen is good, and for it's size/weight the performance is outstanding. I certainly wouldn't trade it for anything other than a Thinkpad or maybe two or three Dells - one a year, for when they break ;)
    - jcromartie 18y ago
      > all my applications are Linux native I've seen people get OS X and then do nothing but run XP under virtualization because they can't be bothered to figure out the OS X native apps. I wonder what, exactly, you mean by "all my applications?"
      - notauser 18y ago
        Inkscape, open office, some custom PM software I wrote myself, front ends to eJabberd/mySQL/Apache/Cyrus, emacs, LaTeX and Firefox. Plus a few things that aren't so important, like xplanet and SuperKaramba.
        SwellJoe 18y ago
- mikeryan 18y ago
  The new MBPs (and MacBooks?) have a two finger touchpad interface that I've found makes a huge difference in its usability - with one finger down already controlling the mouse a second finger essentially works as a mousewheel. I can use my MBP's touchpad fine but can't stand having to use my work dell laptops w/o that feature.
- mikeryan 18y ago
  The new MBPs (and MacBooks?) have a two finger touchpad interface that I've found makes a huge difference in its usability - with one finger down already controlling the mouse a second finger essentially works as a mousewheel. I can use my MBP's touchpad fine but can't stand having to use my work dell laptops w/o that feature.
  - briansmith 18y ago
    Almost anyone that is willing to spend a couple of days adjusting to the ThinkPad's TrackPoint is going to be in for a treat. In particular, in most applications, holding down the center Trackpoint button will make the trackpoint work like a mousewheel (or, you can configure it to work like that all the time using its driver software.)
  - jcl 18y ago
    Most of the PC laptop touchpads that I have used will scroll the focused control if you run your finger up and down along the rightmost edge (or bottommost for horizontal motion). If yours doesn't, check your control panel settings to see if it can be enabled. It's not quite the same as a scroll wheel in that there are some programs where one scrolling technique (wheel or trackpad) will work while the other won't, but it's similar enough to handle most cases.
    - xenoterracide 18y ago
      oh this I'm aware of. mine has this feature. I still think touchpads (all that I have encountered) suck. and infact on linux you can modify the area of the touchpad that does this. I think you can even add horizontal scroll if your touchpad didn't previously support it (not 100% on this).
  - markbao 18y ago
    If you're going to buy the new MacBook Pro (or another Apple laptop with multi-touch trackpad functionality) you'll want to get the application MultiClutch. It basically lets you set up rules globally or per-application that assigns gestures to keyboard shortcuts. In other words: if I'm in Safari, I can remap three-finger swipe to changing tabs, swipe down for new tab, rotate right/left to back and forward, etc. It's very useful.
- culley 18y ago
  I believe the word you are searching for is Clit Mouse. Only Lenovo (Think Pad) and Dell (D620?) have them.
  - jamesbritt 18y ago
    I've a Dell D830 with the clit mouse. Lack of said clit is one reason I stay away from macbooks. (The better screen rez on the D830 is another)
- martian 18y ago
  When I purchased my Thinkpad T60 (nearly 18 months ago now -- how time flies!), the Lenovo sales staff was unable to help me find a notebook with Linux preinstalled. Maybe this has changed recently, but you're better off just buying the base Windows version and putting your favorite Linux distro on top of it. http://www.thinkwiki.org http://www.thinkwiki.org is the best resource I'm aware of for Linux + Thinkpad installation tips.
  - bayleo 18y ago
    Didn't take too long to find the model with OpenSUSE installed on their site: http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/web/LenovoPortal/en_US/systemconfig.runtime.workflow:LoadRuntimeTree?sb=:00000025:00001430:&smid=5D3D13908B314242BD226E9BF4C1A1DB http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/web/LenovoPo...
    - Elepsis 18y ago
      The OpenSUSE models are a fairly recent addition to the lineup, and are still quite limited in terms of hardware options.
sc 18y ago
The MBP is not great bang-to-buck. I bought one 4 years ago (PowerBook, then) and it ended up costing about $3,000. The MacBook costs just over 1/3 that. 1 year ago, I bought a MacBook to replace the failing MBP, and the difference was incredible: the regular MacBook well-exceeded everything about the MBP. I could buy a new MacBook every year (if I needed to) and it would cost the same as buying a MBP every 3 years, and that's if we don't factor in resale. Given that the poster is using the system to learn to program, I doubt he needs the MBP. The MB should more than suit that need.
- deleted 18y ago
  [deleted]
  - sc 18y ago
    Sorry, I said "PowerBook, then". And in 4 years from now it may hold some other moniker. My basic point was that if technology continues to change, the best bang for your buck is rarely the higher end. Only buy the high end if you need it and you're milking it for all it's worth.
    - neilc 18y ago
      If you're optimizing for the best bang-for-your-buck, then I agree. But if you spend all day working on a computer or depend on using a computer to make your living, I think it is very easy to justify buying highend equipment. $2.5k vs. $1.5k is not a very significant difference if it is amortized over 8 hours per day * 300 days per year.
      - xlnt 18y ago
        you only use a computer 300 days a year? and only 8 hours a day?
        neilc 18y ago
        Well, those were just madeup numbers. If you use a computer more often, the case for getting good equipment is more compelling, of course.
rufo 18y ago
I wouldn't knock the MacBook too much. Under $1000 if you check Apple's refurb section (store.apple.com, scroll down and look in the left sidebar), and you can run Windows or Linux if you wind up hating Apple gear. Buy the cheap model and swap in your own larger HD and 4GB of RAM and you'll have quite a decent laptop for not a whole lot of money. If you hate Apple, then I'd go with a ThinkPad personally, but I don't know what's good on that side of things.
- rufo 18y ago
  One other thing I forgot to mention: Apple refurb gear carries the same 1-year warranty that new Apple gear does, and you still have the ability to buy AppleCare (extended warranty) on it. Generally, you're not giving up a whole lot going refurb except a shinier box and the ability to BTO.
mynameishere 18y ago
Who upmods these demonstratably false statements anyway? The falsehood gnomes? Huh?
andrewf 18y ago
I think the MacBook is worth considering. I like its form factor better than the MBP's. If I was unable to use an external screen for extended sessions at home I might favor the larger screen.
taw 18y ago
MB/MBP runs TextMate, ThinkPad does not. That's the main difference.

There are really only two: the MBP and the ThinkPad.

by tx 18y ago

There are really only two: the MBP and the ThinkPad.

Thinkpad++ I do believe some models come with linux preinstalled. I believe thinkpad is one of the few laptops left that has what's called a stick? you know the little nub on the keyboard that you can use instead of a touch pad, and in reality it's way better than a touch pad. god I hate touch pads. I wish I had bought a thinkpad.

Prrometheus 18y ago
I call it the nipple. I prefer the touchpad. It's quicker and more precise.
- blang 18y ago
  I refer to it as the pencil eraser. Once you get used to it, you realize it has the more control than the touchpad. Its main benefit, for me, is that you never have to move your hands out of typing position.
  - mattmaroon 18y ago
    Agreed. I haven't had the awesomeness of a dual touch touchpad, but I've had both normal ones and "the nub", and the latter is vastly preferable.
  - Prrometheus 18y ago
    Try using it with a sniper rifle. You'll change your tune.
- there 18y ago
  http://xkcd.com/243/ http://xkcd.com/243/
- xenoterracide 18y ago
  the only thing that was quicker 'maybe' about the touchpad was speed of learning, and ease of use. The 'nipple' is much faster and more precise if you invest more time in it. much like linux ;).
mikeryan 18y ago
The new MBPs (and MacBooks?) have a two finger touchpad interface that I've found makes a huge difference in its usability - with one finger down already controlling the mouse a second finger essentially works as a mousewheel. I can use my MBP's touchpad fine but can't stand having to use my work dell laptops w/o that feature.
- notauser 18y ago
  Obviously it didn't improve usability enough to stop you posting this three times :) My MacBook Pro is my second Apple laptop (the first was a G4 powerbook) and it is going to be the last unless things change rapidly before it goes u/s. - The keyboard is ok, but the metal finish is slippery. - The large track pad forces typing with wrists at odd angles. - OS X is horrible (all my applications are Linux native so work oddly on OS X, plus no focus on mouse being my biggest two complaints - the rest are subjective/personal). - No region crack for the DVD player, which is unacceptable for travel. Doesn't even work with VLC. On the plus side the build quality is superb, the screen is good, and for it's size/weight the performance is outstanding. I certainly wouldn't trade it for anything other than a Thinkpad or maybe two or three Dells - one a year, for when they break ;)
  - jcromartie 18y ago
    > all my applications are Linux native I've seen people get OS X and then do nothing but run XP under virtualization because they can't be bothered to figure out the OS X native apps. I wonder what, exactly, you mean by "all my applications?"
    - notauser 18y ago
      Inkscape, open office, some custom PM software I wrote myself, front ends to eJabberd/mySQL/Apache/Cyrus, emacs, LaTeX and Firefox. Plus a few things that aren't so important, like xplanet and SuperKaramba.
      - SwellJoe 18y ago
mikeryan 18y ago
The new MBPs (and MacBooks?) have a two finger touchpad interface that I've found makes a huge difference in its usability - with one finger down already controlling the mouse a second finger essentially works as a mousewheel. I can use my MBP's touchpad fine but can't stand having to use my work dell laptops w/o that feature.
mikeryan 18y ago
The new MBPs (and MacBooks?) have a two finger touchpad interface that I've found makes a huge difference in its usability - with one finger down already controlling the mouse a second finger essentially works as a mousewheel. I can use my MBP's touchpad fine but can't stand having to use my work dell laptops w/o that feature.
- briansmith 18y ago
  Almost anyone that is willing to spend a couple of days adjusting to the ThinkPad's TrackPoint is going to be in for a treat. In particular, in most applications, holding down the center Trackpoint button will make the trackpoint work like a mousewheel (or, you can configure it to work like that all the time using its driver software.)
- jcl 18y ago
  Most of the PC laptop touchpads that I have used will scroll the focused control if you run your finger up and down along the rightmost edge (or bottommost for horizontal motion). If yours doesn't, check your control panel settings to see if it can be enabled. It's not quite the same as a scroll wheel in that there are some programs where one scrolling technique (wheel or trackpad) will work while the other won't, but it's similar enough to handle most cases.
  - xenoterracide 18y ago
    oh this I'm aware of. mine has this feature. I still think touchpads (all that I have encountered) suck. and infact on linux you can modify the area of the touchpad that does this. I think you can even add horizontal scroll if your touchpad didn't previously support it (not 100% on this).
- markbao 18y ago
  If you're going to buy the new MacBook Pro (or another Apple laptop with multi-touch trackpad functionality) you'll want to get the application MultiClutch. It basically lets you set up rules globally or per-application that assigns gestures to keyboard shortcuts. In other words: if I'm in Safari, I can remap three-finger swipe to changing tabs, swipe down for new tab, rotate right/left to back and forward, etc. It's very useful.
culley 18y ago
I believe the word you are searching for is Clit Mouse. Only Lenovo (Think Pad) and Dell (D620?) have them.
- jamesbritt 18y ago
  I've a Dell D830 with the clit mouse. Lack of said clit is one reason I stay away from macbooks. (The better screen rez on the D830 is another)
martian 18y ago
When I purchased my Thinkpad T60 (nearly 18 months ago now -- how time flies!), the Lenovo sales staff was unable to help me find a notebook with Linux preinstalled. Maybe this has changed recently, but you're better off just buying the base Windows version and putting your favorite Linux distro on top of it. http://www.thinkwiki.org http://www.thinkwiki.org is the best resource I'm aware of for Linux + Thinkpad installation tips.
- bayleo 18y ago
  Didn't take too long to find the model with OpenSUSE installed on their site: http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/web/LenovoPortal/en_US/systemconfig.runtime.workflow:LoadRuntimeTree?sb=:00000025:00001430:&smid=5D3D13908B314242BD226E9BF4C1A1DB http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/web/LenovoPo...
  - Elepsis 18y ago
    The OpenSUSE models are a fairly recent addition to the lineup, and are still quite limited in terms of hardware options.

sc 18y ago

The MBP is not great bang-to-buck. I bought one 4 years ago (PowerBook, then) and it ended up costing about $3,000. The MacBook costs just over 1/3 that. 1 year ago, I bought a MacBook to replace the failing MBP, and the difference was incredible: the regular MacBook well-exceeded everything about the MBP. I could buy a new MacBook every year (if I needed to) and it would cost the same as buying a MBP every 3 years, and that's if we don't factor in resale. Given that the poster is using the system to learn to program, I doubt he needs the MBP. The MB should more than suit that need.

deleted 18y ago
[deleted]
- sc 18y ago
  Sorry, I said "PowerBook, then". And in 4 years from now it may hold some other moniker. My basic point was that if technology continues to change, the best bang for your buck is rarely the higher end. Only buy the high end if you need it and you're milking it for all it's worth.
  - neilc 18y ago
    If you're optimizing for the best bang-for-your-buck, then I agree. But if you spend all day working on a computer or depend on using a computer to make your living, I think it is very easy to justify buying highend equipment. $2.5k vs. $1.5k is not a very significant difference if it is amortized over 8 hours per day * 300 days per year.
    - xlnt 18y ago
      you only use a computer 300 days a year? and only 8 hours a day?
      - neilc 18y ago
        Well, those were just madeup numbers. If you use a computer more often, the case for getting good equipment is more compelling, of course.

rufo 18y ago

I wouldn't knock the MacBook too much. Under $1000 if you check Apple's refurb section (store.apple.com, scroll down and look in the left sidebar), and you can run Windows or Linux if you wind up hating Apple gear. Buy the cheap model and swap in your own larger HD and 4GB of RAM and you'll have quite a decent laptop for not a whole lot of money. If you hate Apple, then I'd go with a ThinkPad personally, but I don't know what's good on that side of things.

rufo 18y ago
One other thing I forgot to mention: Apple refurb gear carries the same 1-year warranty that new Apple gear does, and you still have the ability to buy AppleCare (extended warranty) on it. Generally, you're not giving up a whole lot going refurb except a shinier box and the ability to BTO.

mynameishere 18y ago

Who upmods these demonstratably false statements anyway? The falsehood gnomes? Huh?

andrewf 18y ago

I think the MacBook is worth considering. I like its form factor better than the MBP's. If I was unable to use an external screen for extended sessions at home I might favor the larger screen.

taw 18y ago

MB/MBP runs TextMate, ThinkPad does not. That's the main difference.