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If you do not know that this sort of thing is coming when you chose to stand up for what you think is right, you should. Protest and civil disobedience come at

If you do not know that this sort of thing is coming when you chose to stand up for what you think is right, you should. Protest and civil disobedience come at an obligate personal cost. The only reasonable expectation you should have before doing it is that you're about to burn your world to the ground -- anything left standing you should count as a blessing and a relief. In this case, for example, walkout organizers should've just assumed that they're going to be retaliated against, and that their protest didn't end the day of the walkout but will continue through the whole process of having a labor lawyer, fighting this in court, documenting their work lives for the next 5+ years, etc. It's part of the same action and part of the same protest. In the long term and at a broader societal level, moral protests are usually worth it, but that does not mean that your shorter- and medium- term economic and personal social costs are going to be zero -- in fact, quite the opposite! edit: i assume that the walkout organizers knew all this, but the above can totally be read as "oh those silly babes-in-the-woods googlers", which was not what i meant. If anything, I understand the linked post as just the next phase of the game, in which illegal retribution is disclosed as part of an ongoing legal fight.

ngcazz 8y ago
It's pretty absurd to think the authors didn't expect any kind of reprisal. No kind of organizing against an entity this size, especially with the visibility the walkout had, comes without a cost. And not reporting on the consequences would be handing over the victory to Google.
- lenticular 8y ago
  This retaliation in response to anti-harassment protests is actually illegal. It's pretty obvious these actions were done before legal got involved: When Claire Stapleton had a lawyer contact Google they walked back the demotion.
  - Aqua 8y ago
    It feels like Google eventually started disciplining disobedient employees. I mean, can you imagine Goldman Sachs bankers organising a protest to express their dissatisfaction with certain decisions their upper management makes? They would be fired on spot. Now, Google has been facing employee revolt for the last couple of years (military projects, James Damore, China search engine), and Google kept allowing that to happen without any consequences. Now that changed, and it makes sense, because employees don't own the company, employees work for the company in exchange for compensation and don't really have to grounds to constantly blackmail the management just because they don't like the direction the company is going. You have to be delusional to think acting like that won't jeopardise your career... Besides if you need to involve a lawyer you are most certainly unwelcome there and should probably just quit (however, finding a new role might prove difficult given the circumstances. Which company would employ someone that organised a revolt against their leadership in their previous workplace and eventually ran crying to the media about retaliation instead of handling the situation quietly).
    - closetohome 8y ago
      Good lord. What kind of terrible person thinks Goldman Sachs is some kind of role model?
      - _cs2017_ 8y ago
        For better or worse, a lot of people admire and respect success. Goldman Sachs is very successful, so unless it does something really bad, it will be respected by many. I don't think you should refer to people as terrible just because they don't admire the same qualities that you do.
        pmiller2 8y ago
        You do realize you’re talking about the same people who nearly took down the entire US banking system 10 years ago, right? The only thing they’ve been “successful” at recently is getting the government to bail them out of the mess they created.
- hprotagonist 8y ago
  Sorry, it's entirely unclear from my post, but i assume the authors DID expect this to happen.
- hjnilsson 8y ago
  Well, they most likely did expect consequences. But regardless they need to make noise of it when it happens, else it would be a waste of attention. This is just the way the world works. If you are opposed to something, you need to complain and make a buzz to get change over time. Even if in the moment it is both obvious and will make no difference.
dcole2929 8y ago
Who's saying they didn't expect that. Expected or not you still fight that tooth and nail and that's exactly what they are doing here. The work is not done but it's important that they not only organize and unite with other workers who are affected but that they do exactly as they have with this article and get word out to people outside of the organization they are fighting. The public can be a powerful weapon
- throwaway2048 8y ago
  Yep tons of people in the comments asking why they didn't just quit. Quitting isn't going to change a damn thing.
algaeontoast 8y ago
Un-ironically there's an episode of SpongeBob that perfectly illustrates this. Where Squidward convinces SpongeBob to go on strike and once he's actually on strike is surprised and outraged when he realizes he's been fired.
stcredzero 8y ago
In this case, for example, walkout organizers should've just assumed that they're going to be retaliated against Retaliation which isn't technically retaliation is just how crusty old Kafkaesque big companies have operated for years. I'll leave it up to the reader what this implies about Google. In the long term and at a broader societal level, moral protests are usually worth it Social media has created an environment where the bar is far too low for activism and protest, and unchecked opportunism in the name of activism is far too easy. but that does not mean that your shorter- and medium- term economic and personal social costs are going to be zero -- in fact, quite the opposite! Strange, but in 2019, there are quite a few people who have profited or otherwise have gained non-monetarily from online activism.

ngcazz 8y ago

It's pretty absurd to think the authors didn't expect any kind of reprisal. No kind of organizing against an entity this size, especially with the visibility the walkout had, comes without a cost. And not reporting on the consequences would be handing over the victory to Google.

lenticular 8y ago
This retaliation in response to anti-harassment protests is actually illegal. It's pretty obvious these actions were done before legal got involved: When Claire Stapleton had a lawyer contact Google they walked back the demotion.
- Aqua 8y ago
  It feels like Google eventually started disciplining disobedient employees. I mean, can you imagine Goldman Sachs bankers organising a protest to express their dissatisfaction with certain decisions their upper management makes? They would be fired on spot. Now, Google has been facing employee revolt for the last couple of years (military projects, James Damore, China search engine), and Google kept allowing that to happen without any consequences. Now that changed, and it makes sense, because employees don't own the company, employees work for the company in exchange for compensation and don't really have to grounds to constantly blackmail the management just because they don't like the direction the company is going. You have to be delusional to think acting like that won't jeopardise your career... Besides if you need to involve a lawyer you are most certainly unwelcome there and should probably just quit (however, finding a new role might prove difficult given the circumstances. Which company would employ someone that organised a revolt against their leadership in their previous workplace and eventually ran crying to the media about retaliation instead of handling the situation quietly).
  - closetohome 8y ago
    Good lord. What kind of terrible person thinks Goldman Sachs is some kind of role model?
    - _cs2017_ 8y ago
      For better or worse, a lot of people admire and respect success. Goldman Sachs is very successful, so unless it does something really bad, it will be respected by many. I don't think you should refer to people as terrible just because they don't admire the same qualities that you do.
      - pmiller2 8y ago
        You do realize you’re talking about the same people who nearly took down the entire US banking system 10 years ago, right? The only thing they’ve been “successful” at recently is getting the government to bail them out of the mess they created.
hprotagonist 8y ago
Sorry, it's entirely unclear from my post, but i assume the authors DID expect this to happen.
hjnilsson 8y ago
Well, they most likely did expect consequences. But regardless they need to make noise of it when it happens, else it would be a waste of attention. This is just the way the world works. If you are opposed to something, you need to complain and make a buzz to get change over time. Even if in the moment it is both obvious and will make no difference.

dcole2929 8y ago

Who's saying they didn't expect that. Expected or not you still fight that tooth and nail and that's exactly what they are doing here. The work is not done but it's important that they not only organize and unite with other workers who are affected but that they do exactly as they have with this article and get word out to people outside of the organization they are fighting. The public can be a powerful weapon

throwaway2048 8y ago
Yep tons of people in the comments asking why they didn't just quit. Quitting isn't going to change a damn thing.

algaeontoast 8y ago

Un-ironically there's an episode of SpongeBob that perfectly illustrates this. Where Squidward convinces SpongeBob to go on strike and once he's actually on strike is surprised and outraged when he realizes he's been fired.

stcredzero 8y ago

In this case, for example, walkout organizers should've just assumed that they're going to be retaliated against Retaliation which isn't technically retaliation is just how crusty old Kafkaesque big companies have operated for years. I'll leave it up to the reader what this implies about Google. In the long term and at a broader societal level, moral protests are usually worth it Social media has created an environment where the bar is far too low for activism and protest, and unchecked opportunism in the name of activism is far too easy. but that does not mean that your shorter- and medium- term economic and personal social costs are going to be zero -- in fact, quite the opposite! Strange, but in 2019, there are quite a few people who have profited or otherwise have gained non-monetarily from online activism.