4 ms·

China is a nation, not a race. Race itself is a social construct. Nice try though!

alexmlamb2 8y ago
"Race itself is a social construct." What do people mean by this exactly? I've heard some people make the case that the exact boundaries between ethnic groups can be socially constructed, which makes sense to me (like how one draws a hard line between two groups which have some admixture). But the idea that ethnicities have nothing to do with biology and is a purely social phenomenon sounds like a lay-person's misunderstanding of the above claim. For example, it should be obvious that using a sperm/egg donor can lead to a child of a different ethnicity even if the socialization is kept the same (which you can't necessarily do perfectly in reality, but still).
- PhasmaFelis 8y ago
  The idea that ethnicity means anything beyond appearance and a few specific genetic proclivities is the social construct. That, and the idea that "races" can be clearly distinguished and defined, as you said.
- olalonde 8y ago
  > What do people mean by this exactly? I've heard some people make the case that the exact boundaries between ethnic groups can be socially constructed, which makes sense to me (like how one draws a hard line between two groups which have some admixture). Pretty spot on.
- noxToken 8y ago
  Or people trying to be too inclusive and forward thinking without thinking about the implications of what is being said. Race and ethnicity are so closely tied, that from a biological standpoint, it's almost pointless to try to separate them. I made a comment about this previously in reply: >This isn't really a good argument. Western people use lactose in a variety of ways such as a drink additive (tea), for cooking (cheese, cream-based sauces), and even consuming by the glass (good ol' fashion milk). However, there's a high prevalence of lactose intolerance in Asian countries. There are just some sensitivities, diseases, and reactions that are more prevalent in some ethnicities than others including lactose intolerance, sickle-cell anemia, and Tay-Sachs disease.[0] [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19420642 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19420642
- MikeTheGreat 8y ago
  I'm still figuring this out myself, but I think that people are talking about race in at least two different ways: 1) Race from a biological/chemical perspective. Stuff like 'DNA determines race' goes here. 2) Race from the perspective of all the things that happens to a person because they belong to a particular race (as defined in 1). Apparently, being black and driving in America means it's more likely that you'll be pulled over by the cops, more likely that they'll assume you're a drug dealer, etc, etc. I wouldn't know because I'm not black, and every time I was pulled over by the cops I was clearly at fault. Differences like these are discussed under the umbrella of 'race'. The key is that in the second case there's nothing from biology / chemistry / science that says that black people should get pulled over more. That's just how things are in America now - it's a "social construct". Again, I'm not an expert, but I think that's what people mean by 'race is a social construct'
- will_brown 8y ago
  >What do people mean by this exactly? Historically, “race” was a term invented to group/categorize people by language. From there it evolved into a reference of nationality. Most recently it has become a word to define an attempt to group people by physical characteristics. So for example you associate race with ethnicity...the question is why? Ethnicity after all is a word to group people through nationality and culture, having nothing to do with physical characteristics...for example Irish is an ethnicity (in addition to just a nationality), but there are both black and white irish.
  - vageli 8y ago
    > >What do people mean by this exactly? > Historically, “race” was a term invented to group/categorize people by language. From there it evolved into a reference of nationality. Most recently it has become a word to define an attempt to group people by physical characteristics. Do you have more information about this? It has been my understanding that throughout history, some languages became the "lingua Franca" so to speak while not introducing race conflict. So I'm curious to hear more about the origins of race as a social construct, specifically its roots in language.
- jonnybgood 8y ago
  You’re conflating race with ethnicity. They are not the same. For example, in America the ethnicities of Irish and Italian were not always considered to be part of the race of white.
- AnthonyMouse 8y ago
  > What do people mean by this exactly? Related: https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/06/21/against-murderism/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/06/21/against-murderism/
gspetr 8y ago
Race is too important in medicine to merely be a social construct. Different races have significantly different disease rates (incidence rates), such that you cannot erase them even if you control for environment (born in the same city, at the same time, went to the same school, etc). If you were to open a large hospital in town X, you would very much want to know X's demographic structure to make informed decisions on how many highly specialized professionals and equipment you would need to effectively treat the population. Making design mistakes at this stage would literally cost lives.

"Race itself is a social construct." What do people mean by this exactly? I've heard some people make the case that the exact boundaries between ethnic groups can be socially constructed, which makes sense to me (like how one draws a hard line between two groups which have some admixture). But the idea that ethnicities have nothing to do with biology and is a purely social phenomenon sounds like a lay-person's misunderstanding of the above claim. For example, it should be obvious that using a sperm/egg donor can lead to a child of a different ethnicity even if the socialization is kept the same (which you can't necessarily do perfectly in reality, but still).

PhasmaFelis 8y ago
The idea that ethnicity means anything beyond appearance and a few specific genetic proclivities is the social construct. That, and the idea that "races" can be clearly distinguished and defined, as you said.
olalonde 8y ago
> What do people mean by this exactly? I've heard some people make the case that the exact boundaries between ethnic groups can be socially constructed, which makes sense to me (like how one draws a hard line between two groups which have some admixture). Pretty spot on.
noxToken 8y ago
Or people trying to be too inclusive and forward thinking without thinking about the implications of what is being said. Race and ethnicity are so closely tied, that from a biological standpoint, it's almost pointless to try to separate them. I made a comment about this previously in reply: >This isn't really a good argument. Western people use lactose in a variety of ways such as a drink additive (tea), for cooking (cheese, cream-based sauces), and even consuming by the glass (good ol' fashion milk). However, there's a high prevalence of lactose intolerance in Asian countries. There are just some sensitivities, diseases, and reactions that are more prevalent in some ethnicities than others including lactose intolerance, sickle-cell anemia, and Tay-Sachs disease.[0] [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19420642 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19420642
MikeTheGreat 8y ago
I'm still figuring this out myself, but I think that people are talking about race in at least two different ways: 1) Race from a biological/chemical perspective. Stuff like 'DNA determines race' goes here. 2) Race from the perspective of all the things that happens to a person because they belong to a particular race (as defined in 1). Apparently, being black and driving in America means it's more likely that you'll be pulled over by the cops, more likely that they'll assume you're a drug dealer, etc, etc. I wouldn't know because I'm not black, and every time I was pulled over by the cops I was clearly at fault. Differences like these are discussed under the umbrella of 'race'. The key is that in the second case there's nothing from biology / chemistry / science that says that black people should get pulled over more. That's just how things are in America now - it's a "social construct". Again, I'm not an expert, but I think that's what people mean by 'race is a social construct'
will_brown 8y ago
>What do people mean by this exactly? Historically, “race” was a term invented to group/categorize people by language. From there it evolved into a reference of nationality. Most recently it has become a word to define an attempt to group people by physical characteristics. So for example you associate race with ethnicity...the question is why? Ethnicity after all is a word to group people through nationality and culture, having nothing to do with physical characteristics...for example Irish is an ethnicity (in addition to just a nationality), but there are both black and white irish.
- vageli 8y ago
  > >What do people mean by this exactly? > Historically, “race” was a term invented to group/categorize people by language. From there it evolved into a reference of nationality. Most recently it has become a word to define an attempt to group people by physical characteristics. Do you have more information about this? It has been my understanding that throughout history, some languages became the "lingua Franca" so to speak while not introducing race conflict. So I'm curious to hear more about the origins of race as a social construct, specifically its roots in language.
jonnybgood 8y ago
You’re conflating race with ethnicity. They are not the same. For example, in America the ethnicities of Irish and Italian were not always considered to be part of the race of white.
AnthonyMouse 8y ago
> What do people mean by this exactly? Related: https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/06/21/against-murderism/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/06/21/against-murderism/

gspetr 8y ago

Race is too important in medicine to merely be a social construct. Different races have significantly different disease rates (incidence rates), such that you cannot erase them even if you control for environment (born in the same city, at the same time, went to the same school, etc). If you were to open a large hospital in town X, you would very much want to know X's demographic structure to make informed decisions on how many highly specialized professionals and equipment you would need to effectively treat the population. Making design mistakes at this stage would literally cost lives.