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It's not the debugger that is broken, it's the entire JS ecosystem. It's such a terrible language we spent the last 2 decades fixing its warts, adding one laye
by sametmax 7y ago
It's not the debugger that is broken, it's the entire JS ecosystem.
It's such a terrible language we spent the last 2 decades fixing its warts, adding one layer on top of the other. And now you have es7 + typescript + jsx + some magic introspection + code splitting + weird non standard imports, all that turned into regular JS and source maps, in a complex concurrent and async env that deals with graphics AND the network, 2 of the hardest things to get right. All that with zero stdlib, multiple incompatible clients, specific extensions for each store/router/event system you use and hot reload live pushing code.
And you wonder why it's hard to debug ?
I get that tooling is supposed to make our life easier, but let's be nice with the poor guys that have to work on the monster that must be usable with that stack.
- holoduke 7y agoThe problems you describe are in most languages. Networking and graphics are quite easy in JavaScript. Nothing fancy or complex about that. Debuggers are super light weight. Build into most browsers. Async programming is just another way. Again nothing fancy and complex about it. You just need to understand it.
- sametmax 7y agoE = MC2 is just a regular equation. Nothing complex about it. You just need to understand it.
- z3t4 7y agoMeanwhile vanilla JS is a pleasure to work with. Sure, you can't make a monkey write good JavaScript but you cant do that in any other language either.
- sametmax 7y agoSure, the language without built in namespace, standardized imports, any stdlib but 4 ways to declare an untyped variable is a pleasure to use. I wish I could remove JS from the browsers and watch all the fanboys trying to pretend they still like it now that it doesn't have an accidental monopoly on the most popular platform in the world.
- ihuman 7y agoThere's no need to be snarky towards the person you are replying to. Just because you don't like using plain Javascript, that doesn't mean others aren't allowed to, or that their feelings are worth less than yours.
- sametmax 7y agoIf somebody comes to a DIY expert forum and says it's a joy to use a rusty screw driver to hit a nail just because that's the only thing in his toolbox, that person is bound to get a few snarky comments.
- ihuman 7y agoThis isn’t that hypothetical forum. Here, just because someone has a controversial option, that doesn’t mean your allowed to be snarky towards them. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html > Be civil. Don't say things you wouldn't say face-to-face. Don't be snarky.
- wwweston 7y agoA more apt metaphor might be hand tools vs power tools, in case you someday arrive at a place where you're actually trying to explore the point, but I suppose the intentionally stacked metaphor choice is a convenient signal to onlookers.
- revvx 7y agoI agree with your points. You can do great things without all that tooling if you're able to only target modern browsers (>90% of the market): - https://www.npmjs.com/package/htm#example https://www.npmjs.com/package/htm#example - https://www.npmjs.com/package/preactz#example-app-with-unpkg https://www.npmjs.com/package/preactz#example-app-with-unpkg