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The thing which always puzzled me about Xanadu is that all the attempted implementations seem to have been written by other people. Drawing from Wikipedia: * "

by floren 8y ago

The thing which always puzzled me about Xanadu is that all the attempted implementations seem to have been written by other people. Drawing from Wikipedia: * "In 1972, Cal Daniels completed the first demonstration version of the Xanadu software on a computer Nelson had rented for the purpose * "While at Autodesk, the group, led by Gregory, completed a version of the software, written in the C programming language" * "Then a newer group of programmers [at Autodesk] used the problems with this software as justification to rewrite the software in Smalltalk" From the Xanadu website, regarding their demo XanaduSpace: "The enthusiastic and talented programmer, Rob Smith, of Manchester England, did a beautiful job combining a lot of our ideas [...] John Ohno and Jonathan Kopetz, in Connecticut, spent several years trying to refactor it, but it's beyond fixing-- though as a demo it works just fine." The related ZigZag project: "The first prototype consisting of two character-graphical views was implemented as a Perl module by Andrew Pam in 1997", and there's a more current implementation by some other people( https://sourceforge.net/p/gzigzag/_members/ https://sourceforge.net/p/gzigzag/_members/) called GZigZag If I had been trying for NEARLY 60 YEARS to get a software project out the door, I would have probably started trying to code it myself after the first decade or so! Every time Xanadu comes up, I'm consistently puzzled at how there's never any sign of Nelson actually doing the grunt work of implementation! Edit: here's an interesting link from the ZigZag wikipedia page, where a GZigZag implementor talks about their experience (http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/233#comment-1715 http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/233#comment-1715): > The GZigZag project did not materialize Ted's dream system as fast as he liked, so he withdrew his support. At first it just meant that he wasn't participating in discussions as much as he used to. At some later time he asserted his trademark (he had earlier given his permission to use it), and we changed the name to Gzz. Around the same time I was burning out, partially due to Ted's distrust and a large part due to project internal chemistry problems. I bailed out on the project in the end of 2002. > Some time after my departure from the project, Ted asserted his ZigZag patent. The project was forced to abandon all ZigZag related stuff; it was reformed as Fenfire by salvaging those innovations that were not inseparably linked to ZigZag and using RDF as the new core. I hear that's not the last bit of trouble from outside parties the project has run to, but I cannot discuss even the little that I know in public. Suffice to say that even Tuomas burned out on the project eventually.

jbottoms 8y ago
You omitted the first browser, Silversmith. From Wikipedia, "History of the Browser": "Another early browser, Silversmith, was created by John Bottoms in 1987.[9] The browser, based on SGML tags,[10] used a tag set from the Electronic Document Project of the AAP with minor modifications and was sold to a number of early adopters. At the time SGML was used exclusively for the formatting of printed documents.[11] The use of SGML for electronically displayed documents signaled a shift in electronic publishing and was met with considerable resistance. Silversmith included an integrated indexer, full text searches, hypertext links between images text and sound using SGML tags and a return stack for use with hypertext links. It included features that are still not available in today's browsers. These include capabilities such as the ability to restrict searches within document structures, searches on indexed documents using wild cards and the ability to search on tag attribute values and attribute names." Silversmith implemented a portion of Ted's vision and I have discussed it with him from time to time. Ted developed Hypertext fixed links for books and we extended that to Hypertext links across the Internet, along with returns to multiple sources which was not done in books. I was not able to get funding to continue the work. TimBL's innovation was in 1.) soliciting funding from the 10 large companies that funded the Web, and 2.) embedding advertising on web pages and in the content. But along with this was the funder's specification of how the WWW should work. My descriptions of Silversmith were removed from wikipedia at W3c's request and Silversmith is now conveniently a "precursor" and most people believe Netscape was the first, when in fact it was released about 8 years after Silversmith The government was the early adopter and we released 4 different browsers in the first year, the last of which was a semantic browser for the U.S. Army Material Command. Silversmith included a browse-able index of each document, automatic markup of submitted texts, a parser to automatically check the page composition and it was a distributed system. The 5th browser was Erwise, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erwise https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erwise, which Tim looked at before he started on his browser, the W3c implementation (the 6th). He declined to pursue it because the comments in the code were written in Finnish. Our other browsers were for the DoD Computer Aided Logistics Support (CALS) documents, for DoD Tech Manuals, and one for Old Norse documents written in Old Norse.I designed the browser to aid in the development of ontologies for AI. We have been working in the field for 33 years. My hope is that our next browser will include Ted's vision of draft versions and payments.

by floren 8y ago

jbottoms 8y ago

You omitted the first browser, Silversmith. From Wikipedia, "History of the Browser": "Another early browser, Silversmith, was created by John Bottoms in 1987.[9] The browser, based on SGML tags,[10] used a tag set from the Electronic Document Project of the AAP with minor modifications and was sold to a number of early adopters. At the time SGML was used exclusively for the formatting of printed documents.[11] The use of SGML for electronically displayed documents signaled a shift in electronic publishing and was met with considerable resistance. Silversmith included an integrated indexer, full text searches, hypertext links between images text and sound using SGML tags and a return stack for use with hypertext links. It included features that are still not available in today's browsers. These include capabilities such as the ability to restrict searches within document structures, searches on indexed documents using wild cards and the ability to search on tag attribute values and attribute names." Silversmith implemented a portion of Ted's vision and I have discussed it with him from time to time. Ted developed Hypertext fixed links for books and we extended that to Hypertext links across the Internet, along with returns to multiple sources which was not done in books. I was not able to get funding to continue the work. TimBL's innovation was in 1.) soliciting funding from the 10 large companies that funded the Web, and 2.) embedding advertising on web pages and in the content. But along with this was the funder's specification of how the WWW should work. My descriptions of Silversmith were removed from wikipedia at W3c's request and Silversmith is now conveniently a "precursor" and most people believe Netscape was the first, when in fact it was released about 8 years after Silversmith The government was the early adopter and we released 4 different browsers in the first year, the last of which was a semantic browser for the U.S. Army Material Command. Silversmith included a browse-able index of each document, automatic markup of submitted texts, a parser to automatically check the page composition and it was a distributed system. The 5th browser was Erwise, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erwise https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erwise, which Tim looked at before he started on his browser, the W3c implementation (the 6th). He declined to pursue it because the comments in the code were written in Finnish. Our other browsers were for the DoD Computer Aided Logistics Support (CALS) documents, for DoD Tech Manuals, and one for Old Norse documents written in Old Norse.I designed the browser to aid in the development of ontologies for AI. We have been working in the field for 33 years. My hope is that our next browser will include Ted's vision of draft versions and payments.