4 ms·

It sounds a lot like the mob has decided someone needs to get fired. Despite not knowing the specific details and despite a third party investigation concluding

by hjk05 8y ago

It sounds a lot like the mob has decided someone needs to get fired. Despite not knowing the specific details and despite a third party investigation concluding that reprimands and sensitivity training was sufficient. I don’t know what “inappropriate contact” was, in this instance, but for all I know it could have been an executive doing a dance and twirling around a secretary. After which she reported that she didn’t like that. Is that inappropriate? Yes. Should you get fired from your position because of it? No. You sit down as adults and talk it out. Of cause the mob could also be right and he might have jumped on a woman doing a lab dance and attempted to rape her. But I’d expect the third party investigation to make judgement on that which it seems they did, but he mob isn’t satisfied because the third party didn’t reach their foregone conclusion. I wonder what the victim has to say? Has anything been shared? Or first party accounts on the incident? Or is all the coverage just vague indirect references to something no-one reporting was actually involved in?

minimaxir 8y ago
Yes, the victim has spoken out. https://twitter.com/kara_woo/status/1114229065509003264 https://twitter.com/kara_woo/status/1114229065509003264
- hjk05 8y ago
  I eventually figured that out, after going through 3 different blogs, the last of which states (without linking, so thanks for actually providing a link to her posts) that the victim came forwards... but still there isn’t anything from the victim about what occurred or even reflections on the current public proceedings, just a recognition of her being he victim and a thanks for support. I feel like if she’s supporting the mob calling for a firering, couldn’t she at the very least say so? And why are all these separate people that are writing long blog posts about “the incident” all being so vague about the facts? If the victim Has come forwards why not just say so and link it? Why not ask the victim what she thinks should happen now, or what happened then? I feel like every post i read raises more questions than they answer. And the general sentiment seems to be “the offenses we are vaugely referencing are so severe that you should support our case without knowing the facts” which just makes me suspucius of what the facts actually are.
  - danso 8y ago
    I don’t understand your kvetching here. You’re mad because the victim hasn’t done enough in your mind to write the details for the public? Why not presume that she was clear in her complaint, given that Datacamp has already decided to apologize? And why should she have to give a statement about wanting the executive to get fired? The submitted post says explicitly that is not what they want. > It did not threaten to go public or call for the executive’s firing, but it did bring up how the growing rumors and uncertainty around misconduct at DataCamp have been a problem for the personal reputations of instructors.
    - hjk05 7y ago
      Let’s be clear. I’m not saying that she has to give a statement, but if your a third party writing a blogpost about a case where the victim has come forwards, you could state that. You could even ask the victim what she thinks, and just state so if the victim doesn’t want to comment. What I’m saying is that it’s confusing that everyone involved is being vague even about public facts. Even you are confused as you’re linking the statement from someone who isn’t the victim presenting it as though it was from the victim. What I’m saying is really just that everything seems very confusing. It feels like the whole affair would benefit from someone involved just coming forward and honestly reporting what they feel or what they know or didn’t know happened or what they want to happen. As it is I’m none the wiser, but since I both use, love and often recommend DataCamp, I am extremely keen on hearing if the leadership engaged in something that I cannot support in which case I will definately look for alternatives. I’m currently hearing a lot og posts saying “trust me something happened either in the incident or the response to it that should make you not want to support them.... can’t tell you what but trust me”. And I really just want to know some of the facts of the matter instead of just vague hints that “stuff definately happened”.
pcstl 8y ago
I constantly feel like American workplace culture is evolving very fast in order to avoid people ever having to sit down like adults and have potentially difficult and stressful talks. (Of course, "sitting down and talking" might be impossible, depending on the severity of the incident - but how are we to know in this case?)
- minimaxir 8y ago
  Other DataCamp employees did "sit down like adults" and talk about it. https://dhavide.github.io/a-note-to-our-commuity-on-building-trust.html https://dhavide.github.io/a-note-to-our-commuity-on-building... http://third-bit.com/2019/04/15/an-exchange-with-datacamp.html http://third-bit.com/2019/04/15/an-exchange-with-datacamp.ht... They got fired because of it.
  - pcstl 8y ago
    And now I feel like I have something to go on instead of just arbitrary vagueness and claims that I should be able to discuss the issue without knowing what the issue is. Thank you!
  - hjk05 8y ago
    Thank you! That adds a lot of the needed context to the original post which feels quite important.

by hjk05 8y ago

minimaxir 8y ago

Yes, the victim has spoken out. https://twitter.com/kara_woo/status/1114229065509003264 https://twitter.com/kara_woo/status/1114229065509003264

hjk05 8y ago
I eventually figured that out, after going through 3 different blogs, the last of which states (without linking, so thanks for actually providing a link to her posts) that the victim came forwards... but still there isn’t anything from the victim about what occurred or even reflections on the current public proceedings, just a recognition of her being he victim and a thanks for support. I feel like if she’s supporting the mob calling for a firering, couldn’t she at the very least say so? And why are all these separate people that are writing long blog posts about “the incident” all being so vague about the facts? If the victim Has come forwards why not just say so and link it? Why not ask the victim what she thinks should happen now, or what happened then? I feel like every post i read raises more questions than they answer. And the general sentiment seems to be “the offenses we are vaugely referencing are so severe that you should support our case without knowing the facts” which just makes me suspucius of what the facts actually are.
- danso 8y ago
  I don’t understand your kvetching here. You’re mad because the victim hasn’t done enough in your mind to write the details for the public? Why not presume that she was clear in her complaint, given that Datacamp has already decided to apologize? And why should she have to give a statement about wanting the executive to get fired? The submitted post says explicitly that is not what they want. > It did not threaten to go public or call for the executive’s firing, but it did bring up how the growing rumors and uncertainty around misconduct at DataCamp have been a problem for the personal reputations of instructors.
  - hjk05 7y ago
    Let’s be clear. I’m not saying that she has to give a statement, but if your a third party writing a blogpost about a case where the victim has come forwards, you could state that. You could even ask the victim what she thinks, and just state so if the victim doesn’t want to comment. What I’m saying is that it’s confusing that everyone involved is being vague even about public facts. Even you are confused as you’re linking the statement from someone who isn’t the victim presenting it as though it was from the victim. What I’m saying is really just that everything seems very confusing. It feels like the whole affair would benefit from someone involved just coming forward and honestly reporting what they feel or what they know or didn’t know happened or what they want to happen. As it is I’m none the wiser, but since I both use, love and often recommend DataCamp, I am extremely keen on hearing if the leadership engaged in something that I cannot support in which case I will definately look for alternatives. I’m currently hearing a lot og posts saying “trust me something happened either in the incident or the response to it that should make you not want to support them.... can’t tell you what but trust me”. And I really just want to know some of the facts of the matter instead of just vague hints that “stuff definately happened”.

pcstl 8y ago

I constantly feel like American workplace culture is evolving very fast in order to avoid people ever having to sit down like adults and have potentially difficult and stressful talks. (Of course, "sitting down and talking" might be impossible, depending on the severity of the incident - but how are we to know in this case?)

minimaxir 8y ago
Other DataCamp employees did "sit down like adults" and talk about it. https://dhavide.github.io/a-note-to-our-commuity-on-building-trust.html https://dhavide.github.io/a-note-to-our-commuity-on-building... http://third-bit.com/2019/04/15/an-exchange-with-datacamp.html http://third-bit.com/2019/04/15/an-exchange-with-datacamp.ht... They got fired because of it.
- pcstl 8y ago
  And now I feel like I have something to go on instead of just arbitrary vagueness and claims that I should be able to discuss the issue without knowing what the issue is. Thank you!
- hjk05 8y ago
  Thank you! That adds a lot of the needed context to the original post which feels quite important.