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Thank you for the market pricing info. I don't even want 200k worth of options. I want cash bonuses from delivering the features that sign profitable customers

Thank you for the market pricing info. I don't even want 200k worth of options. I want cash bonuses from delivering the features that sign profitable customers with a speed that my bosses think is improbable. I am happy to be paid out of the money that I went out and brought in, but every company I have talked to is incredibly allergic to any suggestion that I be paid real money for the value I deliver. Each time I have offered to take the low base offered but with 0 options and a cash bonus system based on directly attributable sales, the company comes back with not a culture fit and declines to proceed. I am freelancing right now while I look for a job and find it very frustrating to work as a contractor selling turnkey business problem solutions to startups (complete apps, setup CI, sso, add permissions to existing app) and have them not even negotiate quotes for day rate of 1.6k, but then when I offer to focus exclusively on a single business as an employee then suddenly they can only see 1/3rd the value in the same work! I feel stuck where as an employee I am viewed as a replaceable cog who is not worth the extra time to even think about giving out bonuses, while as a brand new contractor I am not yet proven/connected enough to consistently fill the pipeline.

notahacker 7y ago
Startups expect to pay a lot more for freelancers at the same skill level as their staff because (i) the freelancers reasonably ask for more because they don't get perks and do get dropped after a week and spend a few days after that looking for work and (ii) they don't have to pay the freelancers for the days they don't need the extra/specialist help, which is probably most of the year. It's a lot more worthwhile negotiating a starting salary that other employees might expect to match and will be the starting point for five years of pay rises than trying to round a 10 day contract down by a few hundred dollars. Unless you have a specialist skillset which is very much geared towards finding new ways of bringing in revenue it's also not exactly surprising they're not keen on the "I want cash bonuses for sales" approach, particularly if you're insisting on that instead of options which signal a long term interest in the company and don't shorten their runway (and yes, they probably overvalue their options as well). Especially if they don't know you were valued at 196k in salary terms in your last job and think you're being odd rather than trying to be flexible.
taurath 7y ago
> I am happy to be paid out of the money that I went out and brought in, but every company I have talked to is incredibly allergic to any suggestion that I be paid real money for the value I deliver. Thats the wrong attitude, generally. You are a replaceable cog - just because you wrote a billing system that takes in millions a year doesn't mean you get the cut of those millions - the value isn't from the billing system, the value is from what the company provides, and unless thats billing systems then you're not going to get a cut. You're selling what is a commodity and asking to be paid as a specialist.
rajacombinator 7y ago
It’s generally not easy or feasible to directly attribute incremental revenue to work done by a single developer. Even if it were feasible doing so implies a certain degree of adversarial relationship between the employee and employer. “Who watches the attributors” essentially. This should be fairly obvious - try to devise a realistic system by which they could allocate a revenue share for you. I doubt you’ll be able to come up with a reasonable one. Ultimately, if you can consistently pull in contract work at 1.6k/day, you should probably continue doing that.

notahacker 7y ago

Startups expect to pay a lot more for freelancers at the same skill level as their staff because (i) the freelancers reasonably ask for more because they don't get perks and do get dropped after a week and spend a few days after that looking for work and (ii) they don't have to pay the freelancers for the days they don't need the extra/specialist help, which is probably most of the year. It's a lot more worthwhile negotiating a starting salary that other employees might expect to match and will be the starting point for five years of pay rises than trying to round a 10 day contract down by a few hundred dollars. Unless you have a specialist skillset which is very much geared towards finding new ways of bringing in revenue it's also not exactly surprising they're not keen on the "I want cash bonuses for sales" approach, particularly if you're insisting on that instead of options which signal a long term interest in the company and don't shorten their runway (and yes, they probably overvalue their options as well). Especially if they don't know you were valued at 196k in salary terms in your last job and think you're being odd rather than trying to be flexible.

taurath 7y ago

> I am happy to be paid out of the money that I went out and brought in, but every company I have talked to is incredibly allergic to any suggestion that I be paid real money for the value I deliver. Thats the wrong attitude, generally. You are a replaceable cog - just because you wrote a billing system that takes in millions a year doesn't mean you get the cut of those millions - the value isn't from the billing system, the value is from what the company provides, and unless thats billing systems then you're not going to get a cut. You're selling what is a commodity and asking to be paid as a specialist.

rajacombinator 7y ago

It’s generally not easy or feasible to directly attribute incremental revenue to work done by a single developer. Even if it were feasible doing so implies a certain degree of adversarial relationship between the employee and employer. “Who watches the attributors” essentially. This should be fairly obvious - try to devise a realistic system by which they could allocate a revenue share for you. I doubt you’ll be able to come up with a reasonable one. Ultimately, if you can consistently pull in contract work at 1.6k/day, you should probably continue doing that.