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Silliness. Why has the 40 hour week persisted? Market forces. Climate change? Market forces. The persistence of the slave trade? Market forces. Prostitution and

Silliness. Why has the 40 hour week persisted? Market forces. Climate change? Market forces. The persistence of the slave trade? Market forces. Prostitution and human trafficking, opioids, disintegration of the family, Facebook; all your good friend “market forces”.

coliveira 7y ago
Exactly, worship of capitalism is a disease where the afflicted can only see the advantages of this "fantastic" system. Despite the widespread evidence that there are many problems in the world that are directly caused by market forces, with the obvious conclusion that there is nothing a priori "benign" about these market forces that are worshiped by so many.
- klearvue 7y ago
  "Market forces" is just another way of saying "individual choices". Restricting individual choices has certainly been practised across a number of political and economic systems but there is always a question - who decides what to restrict?
  - onemoresoop 7y ago
    Let's start with an entity that doesn't have the first incentive of profit and power acumulation?
  - coliveira 7y ago
    > "Market forces" is just another way of saying "individual choices" This is false because my individual choice matters infinitesimally less in the market than the choice of Coca-cola or any other large big corporation. In the other hand, I have a lot more power in the market than a homeless for example. So the right answer is that market forces are "weighted individual choices", and when a few of these individuals have billions in their bank account my individual choice is worth close to zero.
AnthonyMouse 7y ago
> Why has the 40 hour week persisted? Market forces. Mostly zoning laws, burdensome regulations and government subsidies, really. If housing, education and healthcare still cost in real terms what they did in 1950 then people could afford to work 20 hours a week if they wanted to, but they're stuck working 40 hours because of government policies that cause price inflation and cost disease. > Climate change? Market forces. Markets require consent to operate. The victims of climate change didn't consent and should have every right to sue. > The persistence of the slave trade? Market forces. It was actually market forces that destroyed the slave trade. The rise of factories gave the slaves something much better to run away to, which made "slaves running away" a thing that happened so much more often that the entire system started to disintegrate. It's not a coincidence that the Civil War was between the industrialized North and the slave-owning South. Also, slavery is obviously the epitome of not being a free market. > Prostitution and human trafficking, opioids, disintegration of the family, Facebook; all your good friend “market forces”. Prostitution is dangerous primarily because it's illegal. Human trafficking is slavery again. The opioid crisis is caused primarily by the War on Drugs and failed government policies that make it hard and expensive to seek medical treatment while causing black market drugs to have high but inconsistent potency and all the other issues. Disintegration of the family is mostly a result of social assistance programs replacing the need for social ties with government programs. Facebook is lame but it's also in decline. That is how the market is supposed to work -- things people hate fall out of favor. You haven't chosen very good examples.
- hexane360 7y ago
  >Mostly zoning laws, burdensome regulations and government subsidies, really. If housing, education and healthcare still cost in real terms what they did in 1950 then people could afford to work 20 hours a week if they wanted to, but they're stuck working 40 hours because of government policies that cause price inflation and cost disease. You arguing this is really ironic because the only reason they're working only 40 hour weeks to begin with is labor regulation. The free market didn't give factory workers 8 hour shifts.
  - AnthonyMouse 7y ago

coliveira 7y ago

Exactly, worship of capitalism is a disease where the afflicted can only see the advantages of this "fantastic" system. Despite the widespread evidence that there are many problems in the world that are directly caused by market forces, with the obvious conclusion that there is nothing a priori "benign" about these market forces that are worshiped by so many.

klearvue 7y ago
"Market forces" is just another way of saying "individual choices". Restricting individual choices has certainly been practised across a number of political and economic systems but there is always a question - who decides what to restrict?
- onemoresoop 7y ago
  Let's start with an entity that doesn't have the first incentive of profit and power acumulation?
- coliveira 7y ago
  > "Market forces" is just another way of saying "individual choices" This is false because my individual choice matters infinitesimally less in the market than the choice of Coca-cola or any other large big corporation. In the other hand, I have a lot more power in the market than a homeless for example. So the right answer is that market forces are "weighted individual choices", and when a few of these individuals have billions in their bank account my individual choice is worth close to zero.

AnthonyMouse 7y ago

> Why has the 40 hour week persisted? Market forces. Mostly zoning laws, burdensome regulations and government subsidies, really. If housing, education and healthcare still cost in real terms what they did in 1950 then people could afford to work 20 hours a week if they wanted to, but they're stuck working 40 hours because of government policies that cause price inflation and cost disease. > Climate change? Market forces. Markets require consent to operate. The victims of climate change didn't consent and should have every right to sue. > The persistence of the slave trade? Market forces. It was actually market forces that destroyed the slave trade. The rise of factories gave the slaves something much better to run away to, which made "slaves running away" a thing that happened so much more often that the entire system started to disintegrate. It's not a coincidence that the Civil War was between the industrialized North and the slave-owning South. Also, slavery is obviously the epitome of not being a free market. > Prostitution and human trafficking, opioids, disintegration of the family, Facebook; all your good friend “market forces”. Prostitution is dangerous primarily because it's illegal. Human trafficking is slavery again. The opioid crisis is caused primarily by the War on Drugs and failed government policies that make it hard and expensive to seek medical treatment while causing black market drugs to have high but inconsistent potency and all the other issues. Disintegration of the family is mostly a result of social assistance programs replacing the need for social ties with government programs. Facebook is lame but it's also in decline. That is how the market is supposed to work -- things people hate fall out of favor. You haven't chosen very good examples.

hexane360 7y ago
>Mostly zoning laws, burdensome regulations and government subsidies, really. If housing, education and healthcare still cost in real terms what they did in 1950 then people could afford to work 20 hours a week if they wanted to, but they're stuck working 40 hours because of government policies that cause price inflation and cost disease. You arguing this is really ironic because the only reason they're working only 40 hour weeks to begin with is labor regulation. The free market didn't give factory workers 8 hour shifts.
- AnthonyMouse 7y ago