9 ms·

Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco (2016)

52 points by radmuzom 7y ago

deogeo 7y ago
> When they arrive in a flood, as they have during economic booms since the 19th-century gold rush, including the dotcom surge of the late 1990s and the current tech tsunami, they scour out what was there before. By 2012 the incursion of tech workers had gone from steady stream to deluge, and more and more people and institutions – bookstores, churches, social services, bars, small businesses – began to be evicted. Flood, scour out, incursion, deluge... it's very rare for a liberal publication such as The Guardian to describe immigration in such negative terms!
- johnsolo1701 7y ago
  I think you’re a little confused - they are not talking about immigration. Immigration is defined as the international movement of people.
  - deogeo 7y ago
    Ah, you're right - I should have said just 'migration'. This completely changes the picture.
    - beavisthegenius 7y ago
      It does.
- nine_k 7y ago
  Why, The Guardian is pretty left-leaning. So an influx of rich people is seen by it as bad. That influx does incur real problems! But they are greatly exacerbated by the way they are (not) being solved.
- wwweston 7y ago
  The idea that several forms of social influx (immigration vs gentrification) have some things in common despite being received differently along a political continuum is probably worth some examination. But I'd start by looking at whether "flood" or "deluge" are justified not in terms of positive/negative connotation, but whether they accurately represent the scale of what's going on. IIRC, post-civil-war in-migration to the US hasn't ever resulted in more than 15% of the total population being immigrants. The CIA World Factbook says the US had 3.9 migrants per 1000 citizens in 2017. Wikipedia says there's a recent rate of about 1 million immigrants per year, about half of which are changing status for people already here. I'm less sure where to get observations about the portion/influx of tech in the Bay Area or SF itself. But if I were guessing, I'd bet tech pushes up to 20-25% of employmees and activity, and that the influx over the last decade (or in the 90s) is a considerably steeper curve. One might also consider some qualitative factors. An influx of people of average or perhaps even lower than average means primarily represents an impact on (a) competition in the labor force and (b) demand. Those two things ought to cancel each other out in terms of general economic impacts (or perhaps even work in tandem to drive growth), except where there are supply bottlenecks... say, real estate/housing, especially in a geographically constrained area. So, one might expect the impacts to be outsized in a place like San Francisco vs the United States at large (which has plenty of places with modest population destiny). An influx of people of average to higher-than-average means (say, workers in a field commanding a larger salary than many past residents) would massively magnify this problem. So... perhaps there are good reasons to treat the volatility and dynamics of tech-focused in-migration to SF/Bay as distinct from the volatility and dynamics of immigration to the US.
  - deogeo 7y ago
    > Wikipedia says there's a recent rate of about 1 million immigrants per year, about half of which are changing status for people already here. Would that mean they weren't counted as immigrants when they first arrived, because they had the wrong 'status'? Or are they counted twice, first when they arrive, and again when they change status? Edit: It occurred to me, immigration to the US is probably concentrated in the south, so the "15% of total US population being immigrant" is not the most relevant statistic to compare to.
  - 7y ago
- TheOperator 7y ago
  >The Guardian The tech industry isn't sending their best... they're RACISTS... we need to Make America Great Again and clamp down on the SCOURGE of economic migrants gentrifying our neighbourhoods >Also the Guardian Are Trumps H1-B visa reforms a dog whistle for his base? https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/apr/20/h-1b-visas-trump-opposes-immigration-executive-order https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfre... --- Gee whiz! According to The Guardian this recent Guardian article is nothing more than a dog whistle accusing Silicon Valley of becoming too full of racist Asians! It's almost like the Guardian isn't consistent in their support/opposition to migration, are only consistent in their disdain for majority groups & the rich, and cynically accuse their partisan enemies of racism for holding the same views as theirselves
randyrand 7y ago
This is a huge stretch. It’s not only white people that call the cops when it looks like someone has a gun. However, the guardian salivates at the opportunity to blame rich white people for our problems, so im not surprised.
- throwaway91232 7y ago
  You're absolutely right. One of the murderers was asian, as were three of the jurors. But this isn't purely a matter of race, it's very much a matter of class.
  - treis 7y ago
    I don't think poor people are ok with guns being pointed at them either.
scandox 7y ago
This is from 2016. It is included in a collection of Rebecca Solnit's essays the name of which escapes me right now.
crsmithdev 7y ago
This is from 2016, but you can see that even three years ago, the Guardian was already busy milking every possible story for outrage. Nothing can happen, clearly, without it being connected to something bad caused by tech.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
Simulacra 7y ago
IMO non-whites can’t trust the police, they can’t trust white people, and they know interactions with either is likely to lead to their death. How much longer before they say it’s better to die fighting, and start shooting first? I’m angry at those men walking their dogs. They are just as much to blame for this as the police.
- true_religion 7y ago
  I am curious if you are non-white, because I am not and I can’t agree with this. All my interactions with the police have been curtious and professional on their behalf even if I am clearly in the wrong, even if I am discourteous. I can’t think of a single person of color that I know, and I know many that has had a poor interaction with the police. America isn’t a bastion of racial equality, but by and large the police are okay. I used to have the same feelings as you did from watching the media, but it’s like the medias portrayal is not representative. Just look at their coverage on violent crime, if you watch it you’d believe that everyone is at risk all the time but my county hasn’t had a single assault in the past 5 years. IMO people are better served looking at these problems as local issues to which the aegis of greater government can help.
  - bruceb 7y ago
    If you are on HN then you probably are White/Asian/Indian and middle class or above now, or in upbringing. You are less likely to mix with who have bad interactions with the police. I agree broad statements like minorities can't trust the police are ridiculous. Very rarely do you hear Asian man shot by police. Clearly black Americans(mostly men)have a problematic history in interactions with police , with some great abuse by some departments. Unfortunately, bad cops get protected, so abuse doesn't lead to punishment....BUT also CNN and clickbait media/Twitter outrage manufacturers turn every white cop/black citizen encounter in to a racial episode when it isn't, which further makes black men/boys feel under siege. Even though that isn't the case most of the time. When actual abuse does happen, the well is poisoned already by the clickbait, and (some) of their fellow citizens are not as empathetic.
    - 7y ago
cavisne 7y ago
More like death by pointing a gun like object at police...
solidsnack9000 7y ago
Police officers are killed on the job at something like 60x the rate of the regular population. There is a lot of material to work with here, but if the guy really pulled his Tazer on the cops, he more or less engaged in death by cop.
- bruceb 7y ago
  It is a challenging job, no doubt. But for some perspective: https://thefreethoughtproject.com/cop-top-10-dangerous-jobs-country-tanks/ https://thefreethoughtproject.com/cop-top-10-dangerous-jobs-...
  - raws 7y ago
    I like the updated source data better it has actually changed quite a bit. https://www.bls.gov/charts/census-of-fatal-occupational-injuries/number-and-rate-of-fatal-work-injuries-by-industry.htmhttps://www.bls.gov/charts/census-of-fatal-occupational-injuries/civilian-occupations-with-high-fatal-work-injury-rates.htm https://www.bls.gov/charts/census-of-fatal-occupational-inju...
    - solidsnack9000 7y ago
      The page says: Sorry, the page you're looking for can't be found;
  - solidsnack9000 7y ago
    I am not sure where you are going with this. There are more dangerous jobs than being a police officer — but it is very dangerous, far more dangerous than being a YCNews reader or liberal columnist. It’s easy to judge these things is hindsight but that misses the point.
- truthteller15 7y ago
  Cops are also 4x more likely to beat their wives. https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/09/police-officers-who-hit-their-wives-or-girlfriends/380329/ https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/09/police-...
ivanbakel 7y ago
And the HN comment section has all the surprises of a box of biscuits: loyal belief in police testimony, and a complete ignorance of the point of the article in favour of pedantic point scoring. If anyone is looking for a position to fill, whataboutisms and supporting the right of the rich to walk all over you are still up for grabs.
- throwaway91232 7y ago
  > If anyone is looking for a position to fill, whataboutisms and supporting the right of the rich to walk all over you are still up for grabs. I dunno, the comment framing this article as "anti-immigration" is firmly straddling the two.
TheOperator 7y ago
Police Officers "He was coming right for us" defense is a bit suspect considering the mixed up stories. Nevertheless this article is leaping to a whole ton of conclusions. He was carrying a weapon when the cops were called on him and there is no indication who called the cops on him. Quite a xenophobic leap to conclusions to blame this on some racist newcomer for such a woke progressive newspaper.

52 points by radmuzom 7y ago

> When they arrive in a flood, as they have during economic booms since the 19th-century gold rush, including the dotcom surge of the late 1990s and the current tech tsunami, they scour out what was there before. By 2012 the incursion of tech workers had gone from steady stream to deluge, and more and more people and institutions – bookstores, churches, social services, bars, small businesses – began to be evicted. Flood, scour out, incursion, deluge... it's very rare for a liberal publication such as The Guardian to describe immigration in such negative terms!

johnsolo1701 7y ago
I think you’re a little confused - they are not talking about immigration. Immigration is defined as the international movement of people.
- deogeo 7y ago
  Ah, you're right - I should have said just 'migration'. This completely changes the picture.
  - beavisthegenius 7y ago
    It does.
nine_k 7y ago
Why, The Guardian is pretty left-leaning. So an influx of rich people is seen by it as bad. That influx does incur real problems! But they are greatly exacerbated by the way they are (not) being solved.
wwweston 7y ago
The idea that several forms of social influx (immigration vs gentrification) have some things in common despite being received differently along a political continuum is probably worth some examination. But I'd start by looking at whether "flood" or "deluge" are justified not in terms of positive/negative connotation, but whether they accurately represent the scale of what's going on. IIRC, post-civil-war in-migration to the US hasn't ever resulted in more than 15% of the total population being immigrants. The CIA World Factbook says the US had 3.9 migrants per 1000 citizens in 2017. Wikipedia says there's a recent rate of about 1 million immigrants per year, about half of which are changing status for people already here. I'm less sure where to get observations about the portion/influx of tech in the Bay Area or SF itself. But if I were guessing, I'd bet tech pushes up to 20-25% of employmees and activity, and that the influx over the last decade (or in the 90s) is a considerably steeper curve. One might also consider some qualitative factors. An influx of people of average or perhaps even lower than average means primarily represents an impact on (a) competition in the labor force and (b) demand. Those two things ought to cancel each other out in terms of general economic impacts (or perhaps even work in tandem to drive growth), except where there are supply bottlenecks... say, real estate/housing, especially in a geographically constrained area. So, one might expect the impacts to be outsized in a place like San Francisco vs the United States at large (which has plenty of places with modest population destiny). An influx of people of average to higher-than-average means (say, workers in a field commanding a larger salary than many past residents) would massively magnify this problem. So... perhaps there are good reasons to treat the volatility and dynamics of tech-focused in-migration to SF/Bay as distinct from the volatility and dynamics of immigration to the US.
- deogeo 7y ago
  > Wikipedia says there's a recent rate of about 1 million immigrants per year, about half of which are changing status for people already here. Would that mean they weren't counted as immigrants when they first arrived, because they had the wrong 'status'? Or are they counted twice, first when they arrive, and again when they change status? Edit: It occurred to me, immigration to the US is probably concentrated in the south, so the "15% of total US population being immigrant" is not the most relevant statistic to compare to.
- 7y ago
TheOperator 7y ago
>The Guardian The tech industry isn't sending their best... they're RACISTS... we need to Make America Great Again and clamp down on the SCOURGE of economic migrants gentrifying our neighbourhoods >Also the Guardian Are Trumps H1-B visa reforms a dog whistle for his base? https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/apr/20/h-1b-visas-trump-opposes-immigration-executive-order https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfre... --- Gee whiz! According to The Guardian this recent Guardian article is nothing more than a dog whistle accusing Silicon Valley of becoming too full of racist Asians! It's almost like the Guardian isn't consistent in their support/opposition to migration, are only consistent in their disdain for majority groups & the rich, and cynically accuse their partisan enemies of racism for holding the same views as theirselves

randyrand 7y ago

This is a huge stretch. It’s not only white people that call the cops when it looks like someone has a gun. However, the guardian salivates at the opportunity to blame rich white people for our problems, so im not surprised.

throwaway91232 7y ago
You're absolutely right. One of the murderers was asian, as were three of the jurors. But this isn't purely a matter of race, it's very much a matter of class.
- treis 7y ago
  I don't think poor people are ok with guns being pointed at them either.

scandox 7y ago

This is from 2016. It is included in a collection of Rebecca Solnit's essays the name of which escapes me right now.

crsmithdev 7y ago

This is from 2016, but you can see that even three years ago, the Guardian was already busy milking every possible story for outrage. Nothing can happen, clearly, without it being connected to something bad caused by tech.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

Simulacra 7y ago

IMO non-whites can’t trust the police, they can’t trust white people, and they know interactions with either is likely to lead to their death. How much longer before they say it’s better to die fighting, and start shooting first? I’m angry at those men walking their dogs. They are just as much to blame for this as the police.

true_religion 7y ago
I am curious if you are non-white, because I am not and I can’t agree with this. All my interactions with the police have been curtious and professional on their behalf even if I am clearly in the wrong, even if I am discourteous. I can’t think of a single person of color that I know, and I know many that has had a poor interaction with the police. America isn’t a bastion of racial equality, but by and large the police are okay. I used to have the same feelings as you did from watching the media, but it’s like the medias portrayal is not representative. Just look at their coverage on violent crime, if you watch it you’d believe that everyone is at risk all the time but my county hasn’t had a single assault in the past 5 years. IMO people are better served looking at these problems as local issues to which the aegis of greater government can help.
- bruceb 7y ago
  If you are on HN then you probably are White/Asian/Indian and middle class or above now, or in upbringing. You are less likely to mix with who have bad interactions with the police. I agree broad statements like minorities can't trust the police are ridiculous. Very rarely do you hear Asian man shot by police. Clearly black Americans(mostly men)have a problematic history in interactions with police , with some great abuse by some departments. Unfortunately, bad cops get protected, so abuse doesn't lead to punishment....BUT also CNN and clickbait media/Twitter outrage manufacturers turn every white cop/black citizen encounter in to a racial episode when it isn't, which further makes black men/boys feel under siege. Even though that isn't the case most of the time. When actual abuse does happen, the well is poisoned already by the clickbait, and (some) of their fellow citizens are not as empathetic.
  - 7y ago

cavisne 7y ago

More like death by pointing a gun like object at police...

solidsnack9000 7y ago

Police officers are killed on the job at something like 60x the rate of the regular population. There is a lot of material to work with here, but if the guy really pulled his Tazer on the cops, he more or less engaged in death by cop.

bruceb 7y ago
It is a challenging job, no doubt. But for some perspective: https://thefreethoughtproject.com/cop-top-10-dangerous-jobs-country-tanks/ https://thefreethoughtproject.com/cop-top-10-dangerous-jobs-...
- raws 7y ago
  I like the updated source data better it has actually changed quite a bit. https://www.bls.gov/charts/census-of-fatal-occupational-injuries/number-and-rate-of-fatal-work-injuries-by-industry.htmhttps://www.bls.gov/charts/census-of-fatal-occupational-injuries/civilian-occupations-with-high-fatal-work-injury-rates.htm https://www.bls.gov/charts/census-of-fatal-occupational-inju...
  - solidsnack9000 7y ago
    The page says: Sorry, the page you're looking for can't be found;
- solidsnack9000 7y ago
  I am not sure where you are going with this. There are more dangerous jobs than being a police officer — but it is very dangerous, far more dangerous than being a YCNews reader or liberal columnist. It’s easy to judge these things is hindsight but that misses the point.
truthteller15 7y ago
Cops are also 4x more likely to beat their wives. https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/09/police-officers-who-hit-their-wives-or-girlfriends/380329/ https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/09/police-...

ivanbakel 7y ago

And the HN comment section has all the surprises of a box of biscuits: loyal belief in police testimony, and a complete ignorance of the point of the article in favour of pedantic point scoring. If anyone is looking for a position to fill, whataboutisms and supporting the right of the rich to walk all over you are still up for grabs.

throwaway91232 7y ago
> If anyone is looking for a position to fill, whataboutisms and supporting the right of the rich to walk all over you are still up for grabs. I dunno, the comment framing this article as "anti-immigration" is firmly straddling the two.

TheOperator 7y ago

Police Officers "He was coming right for us" defense is a bit suspect considering the mixed up stories. Nevertheless this article is leaping to a whole ton of conclusions. He was carrying a weapon when the cops were called on him and there is no indication who called the cops on him. Quite a xenophobic leap to conclusions to blame this on some racist newcomer for such a woke progressive newspaper.