5 ms·

Nothing? If you don't believe in climate change or believe we should be fighting it, then please get out of the way. The energy transition is a bigger economic

Nothing? If you don't believe in climate change or believe we should be fighting it, then please get out of the way. The energy transition is a bigger economic opportunity that the Internet (Bloomberg estimates it at something like $10+ trillion). So you doing nothing is more money for me. Thanks I guess?

lazyjones 7y ago
> The energy transition is a bigger economic opportunity that the Internet (Bloomberg estimates it at something like $10+ trillion). So you doing nothing is more money for me. Thanks I guess? So where exactly do you think this money is coming from? It'll come out of your pocket (and mine) due to laws that force us to invest in new technology.
- diafygi 7y ago
  Well, for my company, the money is coming from homeowners and business owners buying clean energy products (solar, batteries, EVs, etc.). They are choosing to buy these new technologies because they want to. I noticed you didn't really address my core assumption that you don't believe in climate change. So you don't think it's a problem, right? Can you talk a little more about from where you derive that conclusion? It's so rare nowadays to hear someone straight up deny climate change is a problem when there's so much scientific and economic analysis saying the opposite.
  - lazyjones 7y ago
    > They are choosing to buy these new technologies because they want to. So do I, I have no issues with that. I bought a Tesla Model S 2 years ago because I don't like noise and pollution and it's a cool car. This has nothing to do with buying "to save the planet" or mandated CO2 reductions and EV quotas though, which is what is coming soon and I oppose. > I noticed you didn't really address my core assumption that you don't believe in climate change. Why do you make such assumptions? To discredit and offend someone you are discussing with? > It's so rare nowadays to hear someone straight up deny climate change It can't be so rare if you accuse people of doing this all the time.
    - diafygi 7y ago
      Hmmm, HN is limiting our thread depth, so can you please email me at my email in my profile? I'd like to continue the conversation and learn more about your point of view.
- easymodex 7y ago
  Well i sure as hell hope so. I would love the money being taken from us actually fund something i care about and that will benefit everyone, instead of wasting it on stupid crap.
- __s 7y ago
  The internet showed what value is produced by ramping up communications orders of magnitude in bandwidth beyond what was previously possible. At this point our bottleneck for value is energy, not communication Solar energy doesn't have to worry about entropy: energy from the sun is beating down on us whether we tap it or not. The money will come from the fact that energy produces value. Renewables have been progressing over the past decades to compete with existing carbon infrastructure. To suggest renewables are only hoisted up by policy is to disregard that the oil industry is heavily subsidized & the states currently has a president who will claim "clean beautiful coal"
vixen99 7y ago
https://www.manhattan-institute.org/green-energy-revolution-near-impossible https://www.manhattan-institute.org/green-energy-revolution-... It is indeed magical thinking. "$200,000 worth of Tesla batteries, which collectively weigh over 20,000 pounds, are needed to store the energy equivalent of one barrel of oil. A barrel of oil, meanwhile, weighs 300 pounds and can be stored in a $20 tank. Those are the realities of today’s lithium batteries. Even a 200% improvement in underlying battery economics and technology won’t close such a gap." Meanwhile the battery industry currently uses 42 percent of global cobalt production, a critical metal for Lithium-ion cells. 70% comes from the Congo where kids do their bit against 'climate change'. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cobalt-children-mining-democratic-republic-congo-cbs-news-investigation/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cobalt-children-mining-democrat...
- mrob 7y ago
  Cobalt is not a critical metal for all lithium-ion cells, only for maximum energy density lithium-ion cells. If you're willing to sacrifice energy density you can use lithium iron phosphate instead, which is also safer and more durable. BYD Auto, the Chinese company behind the great success of electric buses in China (preventing more CO2 emissions than electric cars) uses lithium iron phosphate.

lazyjones 7y ago

> The energy transition is a bigger economic opportunity that the Internet (Bloomberg estimates it at something like $10+ trillion). So you doing nothing is more money for me. Thanks I guess? So where exactly do you think this money is coming from? It'll come out of your pocket (and mine) due to laws that force us to invest in new technology.

diafygi 7y ago
Well, for my company, the money is coming from homeowners and business owners buying clean energy products (solar, batteries, EVs, etc.). They are choosing to buy these new technologies because they want to. I noticed you didn't really address my core assumption that you don't believe in climate change. So you don't think it's a problem, right? Can you talk a little more about from where you derive that conclusion? It's so rare nowadays to hear someone straight up deny climate change is a problem when there's so much scientific and economic analysis saying the opposite.
- lazyjones 7y ago
  > They are choosing to buy these new technologies because they want to. So do I, I have no issues with that. I bought a Tesla Model S 2 years ago because I don't like noise and pollution and it's a cool car. This has nothing to do with buying "to save the planet" or mandated CO2 reductions and EV quotas though, which is what is coming soon and I oppose. > I noticed you didn't really address my core assumption that you don't believe in climate change. Why do you make such assumptions? To discredit and offend someone you are discussing with? > It's so rare nowadays to hear someone straight up deny climate change It can't be so rare if you accuse people of doing this all the time.
  - diafygi 7y ago
    Hmmm, HN is limiting our thread depth, so can you please email me at my email in my profile? I'd like to continue the conversation and learn more about your point of view.
easymodex 7y ago
Well i sure as hell hope so. I would love the money being taken from us actually fund something i care about and that will benefit everyone, instead of wasting it on stupid crap.
__s 7y ago
The internet showed what value is produced by ramping up communications orders of magnitude in bandwidth beyond what was previously possible. At this point our bottleneck for value is energy, not communication Solar energy doesn't have to worry about entropy: energy from the sun is beating down on us whether we tap it or not. The money will come from the fact that energy produces value. Renewables have been progressing over the past decades to compete with existing carbon infrastructure. To suggest renewables are only hoisted up by policy is to disregard that the oil industry is heavily subsidized & the states currently has a president who will claim "clean beautiful coal"

vixen99 7y ago

https://www.manhattan-institute.org/green-energy-revolution-near-impossible https://www.manhattan-institute.org/green-energy-revolution-... It is indeed magical thinking. "$200,000 worth of Tesla batteries, which collectively weigh over 20,000 pounds, are needed to store the energy equivalent of one barrel of oil. A barrel of oil, meanwhile, weighs 300 pounds and can be stored in a $20 tank. Those are the realities of today’s lithium batteries. Even a 200% improvement in underlying battery economics and technology won’t close such a gap." Meanwhile the battery industry currently uses 42 percent of global cobalt production, a critical metal for Lithium-ion cells. 70% comes from the Congo where kids do their bit against 'climate change'. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cobalt-children-mining-democratic-republic-congo-cbs-news-investigation/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cobalt-children-mining-democrat...

mrob 7y ago
Cobalt is not a critical metal for all lithium-ion cells, only for maximum energy density lithium-ion cells. If you're willing to sacrifice energy density you can use lithium iron phosphate instead, which is also safer and more durable. BYD Auto, the Chinese company behind the great success of electric buses in China (preventing more CO2 emissions than electric cars) uses lithium iron phosphate.