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A country with 1.4 billion people and a centralist governance stratagem that allowed them to essentially leapfrog from telex to become the world's largest inte

A country with 1.4 billion people and a centralist governance stratagem that allowed them to essentially leapfrog from telex to become the world's largest internet population and the world center for mobile payment penetration through government stimulation and investment. Now the CIA "reveals" that branches of the government had a relationship with the single most advanced telecom equipment manufacturer over the period. I would be more surprised if they didn't. Anyway, thanks to brave individuals we've heard a lot about US government methods ... this is a case of pot / kettle / black... "now give me my budget!".

dahdum 8y ago
Does it make a difference if the pot is calling the kettle black here? Even if the US admitted it, that would strengthen the argument. “We know it’s a national security threat, because we do it”.
- ellius 8y ago
  There's a weird moral element to these discussions though. Lots of people think this is "wrong," or that the CIA is accusing the Chinese intelligence services of doing something wrong, whereas other people admit that all countries play the game and simply are showing this as a legitimate threat. That confusion between morality and cold threat analysis confounds a lot of national security discussions.
  - CyanBird 8y ago
    > simply are showing this as a legitimate threat The issue is with the perspective, China is certainty a "legitimate threat" to the US, at least from a technological perspective, the problem is that China IS NOT a threat to the rest of the world or at least not in the same degree it is to the hegemonic power of the US, meanwhile the US indeed IS a technological and military threat to countries around the globe, so wherever the US and its agencies gaslight about China being a threat, it is always too funny, when you remember that the US has all sorts of military bases, drones subs and spy satellites deployed, not to mention it is already spying digitally on the entire planet (this conversation included ofc)
    - dba7dba 8y ago
      China had not set up military bases around the world in the past because they "did NOT have" the ability to do so. Now that the nation has the fund, they are certainly starting to do so. The Chinese army set up a major base in Djibouti in the Horn of Africa just a few years ago. It is the PLAN's first overseas military base and was built at a cost of US$590 million. I'm sure it won't be the last. If China can do what US can, they will do it. To think otherwise would just be naive.
      - everybodyknows 8y ago
        China is doing what the US could do but doesn't: https://www.defensenews.com/air/2018/05/03/two-us-airmen-injured-by-chinese-lasers-in-djibouti/ https://www.defensenews.com/air/2018/05/03/two-us-airmen-inj...
      - zaro 8y ago
        > If China can do what US can, they will do it. To think otherwise would just be naive. Thats a bit of overstatement don't you think. Its very different culture after all, and you are speculating based only from the American exceptionalasim viewpoint which I think is very very outdated.
        Teever 8y ago
        It's not a statement on culture but human nature. Every country in the world would be an empire like the US if they only could. Its a matter of opportunity not motivation. The bigger issue is what would China do with all that power? We know what the US does with it and I don't think a world lead by China would be as nice a place as a world run by America. It depends on what you want. Me, I want a world with democracy and due process. I don't see anything like that eminating from China and I doubt I ever will.
        caprese 8y ago
        > Every country in the world would be an empire like the US if they only could. Not every country has an expansionist policy Surprise.

dahdum 8y ago

Does it make a difference if the pot is calling the kettle black here? Even if the US admitted it, that would strengthen the argument. “We know it’s a national security threat, because we do it”.

ellius 8y ago
There's a weird moral element to these discussions though. Lots of people think this is "wrong," or that the CIA is accusing the Chinese intelligence services of doing something wrong, whereas other people admit that all countries play the game and simply are showing this as a legitimate threat. That confusion between morality and cold threat analysis confounds a lot of national security discussions.
- CyanBird 8y ago
  > simply are showing this as a legitimate threat The issue is with the perspective, China is certainty a "legitimate threat" to the US, at least from a technological perspective, the problem is that China IS NOT a threat to the rest of the world or at least not in the same degree it is to the hegemonic power of the US, meanwhile the US indeed IS a technological and military threat to countries around the globe, so wherever the US and its agencies gaslight about China being a threat, it is always too funny, when you remember that the US has all sorts of military bases, drones subs and spy satellites deployed, not to mention it is already spying digitally on the entire planet (this conversation included ofc)
  - dba7dba 8y ago
    China had not set up military bases around the world in the past because they "did NOT have" the ability to do so. Now that the nation has the fund, they are certainly starting to do so. The Chinese army set up a major base in Djibouti in the Horn of Africa just a few years ago. It is the PLAN's first overseas military base and was built at a cost of US$590 million. I'm sure it won't be the last. If China can do what US can, they will do it. To think otherwise would just be naive.
    - everybodyknows 8y ago
      China is doing what the US could do but doesn't: https://www.defensenews.com/air/2018/05/03/two-us-airmen-injured-by-chinese-lasers-in-djibouti/ https://www.defensenews.com/air/2018/05/03/two-us-airmen-inj...
    - zaro 8y ago
      > If China can do what US can, they will do it. To think otherwise would just be naive. Thats a bit of overstatement don't you think. Its very different culture after all, and you are speculating based only from the American exceptionalasim viewpoint which I think is very very outdated.
      - Teever 8y ago
        It's not a statement on culture but human nature. Every country in the world would be an empire like the US if they only could. Its a matter of opportunity not motivation. The bigger issue is what would China do with all that power? We know what the US does with it and I don't think a world lead by China would be as nice a place as a world run by America. It depends on what you want. Me, I want a world with democracy and due process. I don't see anything like that eminating from China and I doubt I ever will.
        caprese 8y ago
        > Every country in the world would be an empire like the US if they only could. Not every country has an expansionist policy Surprise.